8/21/2003: Huge pig sacrificed

[quzah]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ
I hope you're not one of those Vegans that proclaim to be the ultimate animal right's advocate while wearing a leather jacket and leather shoes with an egg and cheese burrito hanging out your mouth!

You should look up the word vegan, because you seem to be confusing it with the word vegetarian*. I am a strict vegan. I don't eat or use any animal products if at all humanly possible.

I personally don't care what anyone does, uses, eats, whatever. It's your body, if you want to have a heart attack or get colon cancer, feel free. No sweat off my brow. It's not my goal in life to convince anyone of anything. Believe what you want, do what you want, it has no effect on me either way.

I just find it absurd when people profess some kind of shock or horror at how an animal is treated when they go munch down on a (insert food item here). I guess I just don't like hypocrites. Which is why I loath vegetarians.

Quzah.

*Slight edit here. That isn't the greatest definition of vegetarian. The premise is correct, but the common definition of a vegetarian is some one who doesn't eat meat. Oddly enough they seem to find excuses to eat egg, drink milk, eat either chicken or sea food (because for some unknown reason, those aren't meat. I know, it boggles the mind). People will find a reason to justify any behaviour that makes them feel good about themselves.

[evansk7]

LUVBUGZ:

Out of curiosity, since when did someone have to be a vegan, or vegetarian, to care about animals?

I care deeply about animals. It's a fairly well-known British stereotype, but there's something inherently worse about - say - shooting a burglar's dog than shooting a burglar.

I don't like the thought of animals suffering at the hands of their keepers, and I don't like the thought of *any* living thing being mistreated.

On the other hand, I don't consider - for example - free range eggs to be "mistreatment".. the little hens run round in the sunshine, with their beaks and claws still attached. They lay their little eggs on the ground, and someone comes and picks them up. Then I boil, fry or poach them, and the hen's just fine and dandy. I don't buy eggs other than those raised in free-range farms.

Likewise, I don't consider the humane (i.e. as fast as possible, with as little interval between "alive and well" and "dead and filleted" as possible) slaughter of animals for food to be mistreatment, or "uncaring".

I happen to like meat. I like the taste of meat, I like the texture of meat, I like the nutritional value of meat, and I accept that in order to eat meat animals have to be slaughtered. I won't accept that they be tortured to death for the purposes of feeding me, and I won't accept that they be shoved in little cages and shipped the length and breadth of the country (which is why I don't eat veal) but I *do* absolutely stand by the fact that we're omnivores. We're at the top of a food chain, and we eat the things below us in it - just like every other carnivore and omnivore on the planet.

If you choose not to eat meat do so that's your prerogative, and I completely support you in it - but don't presume to judge me and label me "someone who doesn't care" just because you happen to have a different point of view about a single theme than I do.

Kev

[OnyxCougar]

I second that.

Beef. It's what's for dinner at MY house. (And pork, and chicken and seafood).

I don't want animals TORTURED for my meal, and I buy the tuna that is dolphin-safe (as far as that goes).

What I wanna know is, are they gonna barbie that pig and feed the natives in a ceremonial post-sacrificial feast?

[quzah]

Originally posted by evansk7
On the other hand, I don't consider - for example - free range eggs to be "mistreatment".. the little hens run round in the sunshine, with their beaks and claws still attached. They lay their little eggs on the ground, and someone comes and picks them up.

Ignorance is bliss. Prepare to be enlightened...

Here.

Loose federal guidelines do exist. If chicken producers claim their birds are "free-range," they must be able to document that the chickens do not consume antibiotics or growth enhancers and that the chickens have access to an "outdoor yard". An outdoor yard may be as small as an opening in the sidewall of a standard chicken house. But chickens naturally flock and are territorial. If a side wall is created in a standard chicken house, a few may walk out and take a look. Most will stay in their own territory inside the house.

Here's more info.
And well, if you're really bored...

Like I said, I don't care what you eat. I'd try and put the wool back over your eyes, but I don't use wool either so you're out of luck with me around.

Originally posted by evansk7
I won't accept that they be tortured to death for the purposes of feeding me, and I won't accept that they be shoved in little cages and shipped the length and breadth of the country (which is why I don't eat veal)

Sadly, there are all kinds of cruel shit for just about any kind of animal "product" you can think of. I'll stop searching now, you can do that if you want to further depress yourself.

If you really care, you'll do something about it. Otherwise you'll do whatever you like to feel better about yourself. Like I've said in the past, people can justify anything.

I justify being an asshole because, well I am one.

Quzah.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by quzah

You should look up the word vegan, because you seem to be confusing it with the word vegetarian*. I am a strict vegan. I don't eat or use any animal products if at all humanly possible.

Yes, I'm familiar with these two terms. I was just checking to make sure you weren't one of those people who is a actually a vegetarian, but proclaims to be a vegan.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by evansk7
LUVBUGZ:

Out of curiosity, since when did someone have to be a vegan, or vegetarian, to care about animals?

This was point exactly. I don't believe you have to be vegan or vegetarian to care about animals. If you re-read my post (this time a little more carefully), you will see that I was basically asking Quzah this same question. I wanted to know if that was his/her position as a vegan, because I don't agree. I am for the record neither vegan, nor vegetarian and I basically feel the exact same way you do regarding the comsumption of animals. I actually even wear leather and I don't consider myself a hypocrite for doing so. I don't profess to be a vegan or vegetarian, therefore I eat meat (not all meat, by the way...NO lamb or veal) and I feel that if you are going to kill a cow for it's meat, then you better use the rest of it too. Leather is a strong, useful material that lasts much longer than most synthetic materials, so you're damn right I'm gonna put every part of that cow--who gave his life to sustain mine--to use. To not do so would be in a sense a waste of life and that's not right. Sorry to go off on the 'leather' tangent, but since I got that jab in on my Quzah reply I thought I'd address it now to preempt any forthcoming attack on that front. See, I've run into vegans who think that because I'm not vegan that I couldn't possibly care more about animals than they do, yet at the same time they aren't even true vegans because they have leather shoes on and are eating a cheese and mayo sandwich. It really pisses me off. It doesn't bother me what you believe, but don't pull a holier than thou attitude with me while your hypocritical ass can't even practice what you preach. In a round about way I was trying to find out if Quzah was one such vegan, and have since realized that this is not the case.

Quzah, with all that out of the way I hope we can still be friends, unless you loath meat-eaters more than you loath vegetarians:p

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
What I wanna know is, are they gonna barbie that pig and feed the natives in a ceremonial post-sacrificial feast?

I also addressed this in my earlier post. I said I didn't really have a problem with this "tradition" as long as the pig wasn't abused while alive and wasn't tortured while being killed and was eaten by the people afterwards.

[bmgb]

Ignorance is bliss. Prepare to be enlightened...
Here.

Good link. It's amusing that all they have is pictures of people smiling... and a cartoonish image of a chicken in oversize clown shoes.

No pics of chickens hanging by their feet, waiting to be slaughtered.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by quzah

Sadly, there are all kinds of cruel shit for just about any kind of animal "product" you can think of. I'll stop searching now, you can do that if you want to further depress yourself.

If you really care, you'll do something about it. Otherwise you'll do whatever you like to feel better about yourself. Like I've said in the past, people can justify anything.

I justify being an asshole because, well I am one.

Quzah.

Thanks for the links Quzah. I've basically seen most of these, but it's been awhile. Sometimes I get so depressed trying to 'fight the good fight' that I have to step away for a bit. This Pig Post just got me going for some reason, actually it was Stonan's post that did it. Still no reply from 'it', by the way. I can accept that most people don't know the reality of most animal right's issues and make little remarks here and there, but it really urks me when someone who represents themselves as an activist slips in their 2-cents worth, stirs things up, then departs never to be heard from again, leaving the real activists to clean up the mess.

By the way, in case you haven't noticed, I'm an asshole too:p

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ


I also addressed this in my earlier post. I said I didn't really have a problem with this "tradition" as long as the pig wasn't abuse while alive and wasn't tortured while being killed and was eaten by the people afterwards.

That was a general question to the populous, Love, not at you personally. Relax, sugar.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar


That was a general question to the populous, Love, not at you personally. Relax, sugar.

I'm calm, I'm calm....I realize you were addressing everybody, I just thought I'd reiterate my position by quoting you rather than refering to my earlier post which was misread by some. Sorry, I'll never let it happen again

[xoxoxoBruce]

But chickens naturally flock and are territorial. If a side wall is created in a standard chicken house, a few may walk out and take a look. Most will stay in their own territory inside the house.

Quzah, this is absolutely untrue. I know it was a quote and not your statement BUT, believe me it's simply not true, unless you have 50K chickens in a room with a doggie door and most of them never know it's there.
Been there done than, man and virtually all the chickens will go out and scratch/peck the ground for as long as the sun is up. Would I lie to you, my oldest and dearest friend?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by LUVBUGZ


I'm sure your grandpa didn't abuse his horses, but I'm just as sure he did consider them "great noble beasts". Most people who work and live w/ animals, using them as 'tools' or for food, as opposed to simply having a pet, have a mutual respect for their animals and treat them with such.

Nope, you lose. Gramps (1888-1983) considered the horses a necessary evil and was only too happy to replace them with Doodlebugs (homemade tractors) and trucks. He treated them with care for the reasons I stated before.
Now I love to see horses racing (unridden) across the open fields. But I understand Gramps point because I had to get up and walk a half mile each way to the barn, take care of the critters, come back and get ready to catch the school bus at 6:45 AM, every stinkin' morning. With animals there is no vacations, no days off. Then at night more chores and on weekends the other stuff like mucking stalls and other distasteful things.
Oh, and don't get me started on milking or hog slopping.:p

[xoxoxoBruce]

ndetroit, Not to worry. Any male meat on the market has been neutered at a young age. To promote growth, reduce agression (Injurys) and improve taste. Sorry for the late reply, man.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce

Nope, you lose. Gramps (1888-1983) considered the horses a necessary evil and was only too happy to replace them with Doodlebugs (homemade tractors) and trucks. He treated them with care for the reasons I stated before.
Now I love to see horses racing (unridden) across the open fields. But I understand Gramps point because I had to get up and walk a half mile each way to the barn, take care of the critters, come back and get ready to catch the school bus at 6:45 AM, every stinkin' morning. With animals there is no vacations, no days off. Then at night more chores and on weekends the other stuff like mucking stalls and other distasteful things.
Oh, and don't get me started on milking or hog slopping.:p

All right, all right. You obviously knew grandpa and I didn't. Curious... did he keep *any* horses after the Doodlebugs came on the sceen?

I definately know what you mean about NO vacations w/ animals...they'll also drain your bank account w/ food and vet bills!!

You mean you got to take a bus to school and didn't have to walk five miles in the snow, up hill, w/out boots and a coat:p