The 24 hour engagement.

[disenchanted]

tiki: I'd be with you on the "taking her at her word and making a specific statement", except, well, she never said that. Yes, she said she had reservations about going, but it wasn't until after we got back that she said anything specific about the deal being it had to have been a no-pressure weekend.

[disenchanted]

tiki: it was no lie. I was freaking out the whole time deciding if I should or shouldn't go forward.

I was freaking out thinking that if I didn't ask soon my chance would be gone.

But do not try to tell me that my I had dishonesty in my heart. Confused, wrong idea, boneheaded. Yeah. But deliberate lie? Screw you.

Originally Posted by disenchanted

tiki: I'd be with you on the "taking her at her word and making a specific statement", except, well, she never said that. Yes, she said she had reservations about going, but it wasn't until after we got back that she said anything specific about the deal being it had to have been a no-pressure weekend.

Oh, ok... I misunderstood, then. I thought the promise of no pressure was what convinced her to go on the trip. If that wasn't agreed on ahead of time, sounds like she's just spinning out on stuff going on in her head.

Originally Posted by disenchanted

tiki: it was no lie. I was freaking out the whole time deciding if I should or shouldn't go forward.

I was freaking out thinking that if I didn't ask soon my chance would be gone.

But do not try to tell me that my I had dishonesty in my heart. Confused, wrong idea, boneheaded. Yeah. But deliberate lie? Screw you.

You obviously did not consciously intend to lie, and you also obviously believe you did not lie. However, I came to the conclusion that you lied to her based on what you posted, as I had nothing else to go on.

Originally Posted by disenchanted

Marriage had been talked about quite a bit, and last weekend she said she didn't want to go on this trip...until I said "Ok, let's take the pressure off and just have a fun weekend then." (this trip had been planned originally as THE BIG WEEKEND.)

You see, since you then went on to propose, it was not truthful when you told her this. That is the part that I cannot help but interpret as not honest, and I kind of suspect that is the part she also is perceiving as not honest.

If things didn't happen the way you stated they happened, perhaps there was no untruth, but according to your own telling, you misled her. That is the part I think you could stand to re-examine; your own thought processes and motives, and what made you believe it was a good idea, or even an acceptable one, to mislead her in order to get her in a position you wanted her in, but which she had been clear she did not want to be in.

[disenchanted]

Compare that with:
"Don't tell me about it, don't ask me about it, I want to be surprised...with a lobster dinner"

Or how about:
"I know you've said you need more time, but is this something we're going to communicate about, or am I just going to have to a take a chance at some point....on a trip to the sea lion caves?"

What I said was true at the time. And then I got blinded by a week of things feeling like the best of times. I tried to gauge how things were going with my question.

But you've decided I was being willfully deceptive. Clearly I had spent the entire week twirling my mustache and conceiving ways to trick her into marrying me (you know, provided that I ever untied her from the railroad tracks)

[Aliantha]

If it's any consolation I don't think anyone else much thinks you deceived her.

I hope you can find a good outcome for both of you though, regardless of what mistakes have been made by whom.

[ZenGum]

Moustache-twirling, railroad tracks ... I note that Dis-E still has some sense of humour about this.

There is hope for him.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yeah, he'll be OK as soon as his balls drop back down.

I'm just trying to explain that I can see how she would feel misled and betrayed. I don't think he consciously intended to mislead or betray her, I just think that maybe he was so focused on what he wanted that he (unconsciously) chose to interpret her statement about wanting to be surprised in a way that was favorable to what his intentions were.

I wasn't there for the conversation, so, again, I'm only basing it on what he has told us, and my advice is still that I think he could benefit from really examining what his thought processes were when he decided to go ahead with proposing in the face of what seems (to me) like a clear red light, in order to understand why and how he might deal better with a relationship with her or any other woman in the future.

Maybe, knowing what he knows about her and their relationship, to him "Don't tell me about it, don't ask me about it" is a clear green light. I wouldn't interpret it that way, but again, I'm not in that relationship and only have the small amount of context that he has posted.

As I have said as many times as possible, I am posting based on what my reactions, feelings, and thoughts would be if I were in a similar situation. Maybe it can provide some insight about why she is reacting the way she is, or maybe not. Take it as you will

[Pico and ME]

Damn Tiki....let it go already.

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Damn Tiki....let it go already.

I take it Pico is the guy who decides when topics are over and people have to stop being interested in them?

Thanks Pico, it's a good thing they found a special job for a special person like you.

[Pico and ME]

And its a good thing that highly aggressive neurotics like you can come here to get their sensitive egos in a defensive twist.

Oooh look, another name-caller! It's like an epidemic.

I'm not as sensitive as you like to pretend I am, but if it makes you feel good thinking that I'm actually upset and not just a fast typist, go ahead and masturbate over it.

Don't forget to put on clean socks.