What is Love?

lumberjim · 08-13-2010, 09:51 AM

I'm reading 'A Road Less Traveled' By M Scott Peck

He has a very different definition of love than I've ever come across. It's a very pragmatic definition, and I think it makes sense.

from the wiki page:

Quote:

Love

His perspective on love (in The Road Less Traveled) is that love is not a feeling, it is an activity and an investment. He defines love as, "The will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth" (Peck, 1978/1992[2], p85). Love is primarily actions towards nurturing the spiritual growth of another.
Peck seeks to differentiate between love and cathexis. Cathexis is what explains attractions to the opposite sex, the instinct for cuddling pets and pinching babies' cheeks. However, cathexis is not love. All the same, true love cannot begin in isolation, a certain amount of cathexis is necessary to get sufficiently close to be able to truly love.
Once through the cathexis stage, the work of love begins. It is not a feeling. It consists of what you do for another person. As Peck says in The Road Less Traveled, "Love is as love does." It is about giving the other person what they need to grow. It is about truly knowing and understanding them.

(bold mine)

This is a quote by jinx during a recent chat conversation where we were discussing my occasionally loose grip on reality:

Quote:

we're not just a married couple to you - we're soul-mates, destined to be together forever.

that statement rang a bell in my head. a loud one.

I think I DO get caught up in the fantasy of 'true love' and 'destiny', when in actuality, real love is what you DO, not what you think, hope, wish, or attest. SAYING you love someone ....and meaning it is all well and good, and can make the other person feel good about themselves for as long as they believe it....but that belief has to end at some point if your actions are not in agreement with these attestations.... The lovey dovey affection part of love (cathexis)will only last for so long. Real love abides in the DOING. The actions you take to share yourself with your partner, the work you do in paying attention to their spiritual growth, and the loving acts you perform for them and for others.... THAT is love. That is HOW to love someone.

Is it serendipity that I read the above quoted passage mere hours after that statement by jinx?

This is a really really good book. I'm only halfway through it, but I already want to own a copy. It reads a little bit like a text book in places, so I have to slow down and re read some paragraphs, and be careful not to zone if I am getting sleepy... but this kind of perspective can change how you see the things you do, and thus WHAT you do going forward. ...and I'm all about change right now.

Pete Zicato · 08-13-2010, 10:57 AM

In English the word 'love' is overloaded. Depending on context it can mean many different things. The greeks had three different words, and the concepts you describe above fit (sort of) with the Greek words eros, agape, and philia.

I think this overuse of the word 'love' is one of the (admittedly many) reasons that we have so much trouble with long-term relationships in our society.

It's great to have that feeling of love at the beginning of a relationship, but if you don't have that dedication to put another's welfare equal-to or above your own, then the relationship will not stand.

The trick it to find the person for whom you feel the romantic attraction and with whom you also are compatible enough that you are willing to do the work of love.

classicman · 08-13-2010, 11:06 AM

Well said Pete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

The trick it to find the person for whom you feel the romantic attraction and with whom you also are compatible enough that you are willing to do the work of love.

...and feels the same for you. Its gotta be a two way street.

limey · 08-13-2010, 11:06 AM

I strongly feel that once the horny, dewey-eyed, butterflies-in-the-stomach stage wears off, and it does, love is a choice. The choice to stay with a person, to consider how they feel about what you do, to work on the partnership. It doesn't sound very romantic, but surely choosing loving actions is far more romantic than simply being swept along by the vertigo of falling-in-love-ness?

JBKlyde · 08-13-2010, 12:04 PM

Love is a decision. A decision that regardless of the worldly outlook of all evil, that you will act upon your most enlightened instinct to do the right thing.

Flint · 08-13-2010, 02:22 PM

Baby Don't Hurt Me.

monster · 08-13-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBKlyde

Love is a decision. A decision that regardless of the worldly outlook of all evil, that you will act upon your most enlightened instinct to do the right thing.

and if she doesn't like you doing the right thing it is your solemn duty to make her see it that way until death or restraining order do you part

[/wrongthread]

(where's the OSHA compliant psychostalker soulwash? I've been contaminated!)

JBKlyde · 08-14-2010, 06:18 AM

the monsters loose, honestly dude I don't think you have a clue what true love is....

Trilby · 08-14-2010, 08:10 AM

JBKlyde is craaaaaaaaaaazy

Shawnee123 · 08-14-2010, 08:13 AM

monster ain't a smart man, but monster knows what love is, jenneh.

Trilby · 08-14-2010, 08:14 AM

snort!

Undertoad · 08-14-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

This is a quote by jinx during a recent chat conversation where we were discussing my occasionally loose grip on reality:

we're not just a married couple to you - we're soul-mates, destined to be together forever.

not really addressing the thread, I was thinking about this, and it seems like something we learn in life is the person who loves more has less power in the relationship

and it is up to the person with more power to never take advantage of that.

GunMaster357 · 08-14-2010, 04:49 PM

Love is what a woman makes when a man fucks her.

Yes, I know. I am an fucking phallocrat.

BigV · 08-14-2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

not really addressing the thread, I was thinking about this, and it seems like something we learn in life is the person who loves more has less power in the relationship

and it is up to the person with more power to never take advantage of that.

Discussed here:

The one who loves less is in control of the relationship

Crystallized here:

"like riding in the trunk"

fuckin fact.

LJ · 08-14-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

not really addressing the thread, I was thinking about this, and it seems like something we learn in life is the person who loves more has less power in the relationship

and it is up to the person with more power to never take advantage of that.

Or that the person that is loved more is more loveable for some reason. And thus holds more 'power'.
And all the shades of grey between.

Being conscious of your power and respecting it is a sort of 'Grace' I agree.

08-13-2010, 10:57 AM	#2
Pete Zicato Turns out my CRS is a symptom of TMB. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Chicago suburbs Posts: 2,916	In English the word 'love' is overloaded. Depending on context it can mean many different things. The greeks had three different words, and the concepts you describe above fit (sort of) with the Greek words eros, agape, and philia. I think this overuse of the word 'love' is one of the (admittedly many) reasons that we have so much trouble with long-term relationships in our society. It's great to have that feeling of love at the beginning of a relationship, but if you don't have that dedication to put another's welfare equal-to or above your own, then the relationship will not stand. The trick it to find the person for whom you feel the romantic attraction and with whom you also are compatible enough that you are willing to do the work of love. __________________ Talk nerdy to me.

08-13-2010, 11:06 AM	#4
limey Encroaching on your decrees Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: An island within the south-west coast of Scotland Posts: 7,016	I strongly feel that once the horny, dewey-eyed, butterflies-in-the-stomach stage wears off, and it does, love is a choice. The choice to stay with a person, to consider how they feel about what you do, to work on the partnership. It doesn't sound very romantic, but surely choosing loving actions is far more romantic than simply being swept along by the vertigo of falling-in-love-ness? __________________ Living it up on the edge ... of civilisation, within the southwest coast of Last edited by limey; 08-13-2010 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Spilleng

08-13-2010, 02:22 PM	#6
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Baby Don't Hurt Me. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-14-2010, 08:10 AM	#9
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	JBKlyde is craaaaaaaaaaazy __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

08-14-2010, 08:13 AM	#10
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	monster ain't a smart man, but monster knows what love is, jenneh. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

08-13-2010, 12:04 PM	#5
JBKlyde Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Encrypted Into an AmpitheaterWall Posts: 1,722	Love is a decision. A decision that regardless of the worldly outlook of all evil, that you will act upon your most enlightened instinct to do the right thing.

08-14-2010, 06:18 AM	#8
JBKlyde Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Encrypted Into an AmpitheaterWall Posts: 1,722	the monsters loose, honestly dude I don't think you have a clue what true love is....

08-14-2010, 08:14 AM	#11
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	snort! __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

08-14-2010, 04:49 PM	#13
GunMaster357 Professor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Brest (FRANCE) Posts: 1,837	Love is what a woman makes when a man fucks her. Yes, I know. I am an fucking phallocrat. __________________ "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." - Ambrose Bierce

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