March 14th: Scott's final Antarctic expedition.

[Carruthers]

Unseen images of Scott of the Antarctic’s doomed final expedition could be lost to the nation after their mystery owner gave Cambridge University until the end of the month to raise £275,000 to buy them. If the funds are not in place by March 25, the photographic negatives are due to go for auction, where it is expected they will be purchased by a private collector from overseas.

Daily Telegraph article.

Daily Telegraph Album

The DT suffers from a paywall, but a number of free articles are allowed before extortion sets in. A 'friend' tells me that clearing cookies and browser cache might help. I couldn't possibly comment.

[Carruthers]

Although these photos portray events over a century ago, there's a timeless quality about them. Plenty more here: Google Images

[xoxoxoBruce]

I suppose losing the negatives would be akin to snatching their baby from their arms and dashing on the rocks, to the people running the Institute. Any physical thing from that expedition would be holy grail class, considering that expedition caused the Institute to be born. I can understand their frustration with the owner not donating them, and asking for a whole lot of money.

But do they need them... no. They have prints which can be digitized for further manipulation and study. I guess they have they negatives for a little while longer, which can be projected to a large size and digitized.

I wonder if they are afraid whoever gets the negatives will be a copyright dick, and hassle anyone trying to display the pictures?

[Sundae]

I need to check my Euromillions ticket. I'd buy them for the country at least.

I have With Scott to the Pole, a book of Ponting's photographs. I get it out about twice a year and match it up with various passages in the other books I have.
Fascinated by the race to the South Pole in case that didn't come across...

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I suppose losing the negatives would be akin to snatching their baby from their arms and dashing on the rocks, to the people running the Institute. Any physical thing from that expedition would be holy grail class, considering that expedition caused the Institute to be born. I can understand their frustration with the owner not donating them, and asking for a whole lot of money.

But do they need them... no. They have prints which can be digitized for further manipulation and study. I guess they have they negatives for a little while longer, which can be projected to a large size and digitized.

I wonder if they are afraid whoever gets the negatives will be a copyright dick, and hassle anyone trying to display the pictures?

A few weeks ago, I read in one of the newspapers about a fairly mundane item associated with polar exploration being sold for a substantial sum of money.
Despite searching, I haven't been able to determine what it was... biscuit tin or ketchup bottle... something along those lines.
What I did discover, is that there appears to be a thriving market in such objects: Polar exploration artifacts go under the hammer and Ice pick from Shackleton's final expedition up for auction

It's a pity the owner has chosen to sell, rather than donate or lend, but 'tis the way of the world, unfortunately.

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by Sundae

I need to check my Euromillions ticket. I'd buy them for the country at least.

Euromillions jackpot of £107.9m won by UK ticket-holder

Was it you, Sundae? Do tell!

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I wonder if they are afraid whoever gets the negatives will be a copyright dick, and hassle anyone trying to display the pictures?

Wouldn't they be in the public domain by now anyway?

I dunno, I'm pretty unsentimental. It's not like the images themselves will be lost--they're right here on the Cellar, for starters--and the physical negatives won't last forever anyway. If they were mine, I'd take the money and run, too.

[Diaphone Jim]

I wonder if they are glass negatives.
The pictures taken by Ernest Shackleton's photographer, Frank Hurley, rival in clarity any taken today. They are magical.

http://www.shackleton-endurance.com/joomla/

I have studied the adventure of the Endurance for years, but just found this well made page:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/endurance/

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim

I wonder if they are glass negatives.

It would seem likely given this para:

The Polar Museum is already home to the remaining prints of Scott's photographs, Herbert Ponting's glass plate negatives and Ponting's presentation album from the same expedition. Added to that are the prints and albums of all the other expedition members equipped with a camera. Together, they form the most comprehensive photographic record of the expedition held anywhere in the world.

Scott Polar Research Institute

The site also contains this video:



ETA: Just found this: Photographs of ill-fated Antarctic mission...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Carruthers

It's a pity the owner has chosen to sell, rather than donate or lend, but 'tis the way of the world, unfortunately.

I was kicking this around in my head when I read the article. At first why sure, be a good doobie and donate them, but on the other hand $450,000.
Now this ain't some kid's milk money, it's mostly donations of wealthy patrons and grants from large funds already established.
Oh the good shit I could do, the lives I could shake up, with that.
I've a feeling that debate would go on until the moment I made a rash decision.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Wouldn't they be in the public domain by now anyway?

A short time ago I would have though so, but recently there's been a lot of shenanigans going on with copyrights, patents, international treaty language, powerful lobbies, and trolls.

The negatives (and pictures) are remarkably clear because they had lots of light with the snow, and lots of time as most aren't action shots.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

A short time ago I would have though so, but recently there's been a lot of shenanigans going on with copyrights, patents, international treaty language, powerful lobbies, and trolls.

[tangental]Allow me to take this too far, since I've been reading a lot of news feeds in the wrong light. This mad scramble for value, control, and power seems to give credence to the idea that as civilization crumbles the elites isolate themselves from the consequences of collapse as long as they can, while people in general bear the consequences. You get a lot of short-term thinking by people with power, propping up broken or flawed systems just hoping to ride it out instead of allowing civilization to evolve toward a potentially successful model.[way tangental] or I'm just going a little nuts.

[Sundae]

See, Clod, I am sentimental. Maybe not over the same things as the general public (gawdblessem), but sentimental all the same.

The Worst Journey in the World by Apsley Cherry-Garrard is one of my favourite books.
It details his trip to the Antarctic with Scott, although it primarily focuses on the side-trip he took whilst there with Birdie Bowers and Wilson to the nesting ground of the Emperor penguins, who only hatch their eggs in the deepest, darkest, coldest depths of the Antarctic Winter. They went to obtain eggs/ embryos to further research into the study of evolution. They hoped to be able to prove a link between dinosaurs and birds.

And he came back, a survivor riddled with guilt.
So he sat alone in the Natural History Museum, waiting to have his precious eggs accepted. Eggs he and two other men were close to death to attain. And those two other men died on the subsequent push to the Pole (they were selected, he was turned back at the final point and was very sorry about it).
And he was treated as an inconvenience.

I've quoted this before.
I know I will again.
I hope it helps explain my obsession.

"There are many reasons which send men to the Poles, and the Intellectual Force uses them all. But the desire for knowledge for its own sake is the one which really counts and there is no field for the collection of knowledge which at the present time can be compared to the Antarctic.

Exploration is the physical expression of the Intellectual Passion.

And I tell you, if you have the desire for knowledge and the power to give it physical expression, go out and explore. If you are a brave man, you will do nothing: if you are fearful you may do much, for none but cowards have need to prove their bravery. Some will tell you that you are mad, and nearly all will say ‘What is the use?’ For we are a nation of shopkeepers, and no shopkeeper will look at research which does not promise him a financial return within a year. And so you will sledge nearly alone, but those with whom you sledge will not be shopkeepers: that is worth a good deal. If you march your Winter Journeys, you will have your reward, so long as all you want is a penguin’s egg."
Apsley Cherry-Gerrard

RIP.
I'm glad your face survives in photographs, and also the images of those you lost.

[Clodfobble]

I completely agree with all of that, Sundae. The exploration itself was/is amazing, as are the photos. But are the physical film negatives, which are going to be gone eventually anyway, worth several hundred thousand, above and beyond the images which we will continue to have for everyone to admire? Would it not be better to put that money towards new and future scientific endeavors?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

[tangental]Allow me to take this too far, since I've been reading a lot of news feeds in the wrong light. This mad scramble for value, control, and power seems to give credence to the idea that as civilization crumbles the elites isolate themselves from the consequences of collapse as long as they can, while people in general bear the consequences. You get a lot of short-term thinking by people with power, propping up broken or flawed systems just hoping to ride it out instead of allowing civilization to evolve toward a potentially successful model.[way tangental] or I'm just going a little nuts.

You're not nuts, and it's not tangential at all.
It's the foundation everything teeters on today, the rational behind most of which befuddles our common sense reasoning, and the light illuminating shadowy figures who are shouting. look over there, no over there, over there.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I completely agree with all of that, Sundae. The exploration itself was/is amazing, as are the photos. But are the physical film negatives, which are going to be gone eventually anyway, worth several hundred thousand, above and beyond the images which we will continue to have for everyone to admire? Would it not be better to put that money towards new and future scientific endeavors?

No
(That's where the being sentimental part comes in.)

I respect your logic.
But it's heart not head for me in this. I would pay a ridiculous amount of money for something from the Winter Journey. And if it was a shovel it would just be a shovel, and one I could not even use. Except during a Zombie Apocalypse, Shaun of the Dead stylee.

So to me, owning the negatives is important.
And I accept it probably doesn't make sense