What it means to be an American

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by primal muse

you get an a for being totally presumptuous. ive probably faced more trial in my 21 years than you have in your entire life time.

Give yourself an A for being presumptuous. And give yourself an A+ at kissing your own ass.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by MaggieL

If you recall, at 21 people like you look a lot like part of The System, Bruce. ;-)

And they'd be right, I am part of the system. What they don't understand is if it weren't for people like me, it would be much, much worse.
People like me, who have "raged against the machine", and been slapped down so many damned times we've learned to pick out fights more carefully.
Where do you think, "Think globally, act locally", came from?

Primal thinks I haven't got a clue when actually I've been there, done that.
I understand why Primal's frustration with my "ignorance", but my attempt at a humorous response stems from trying not to give advice because....

[wolf]

Originally Posted by primal muse

and if our capitilistic ideasl arent second rate then how come our country is in such deep debt to other countries that its frightening?

The way that it works is that other countries are in deep debt to us.

Nobody's paid us for WWII yet. Oh wait, I kind of remember hearing that maybe Finland did ...

My sig line contains a quote from a book that you have to read.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Where do you think, "Think globally, act locally", came from?

Rationalization and cognitive dissonance. :-)

It's actually quite possible to get good advice from elders. But, like every other cohort or demographic group, some of them are assholes. You have to be selective.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by wolf

Nobody's paid us for WWII yet. Oh wait, I kind of remember hearing that maybe Finland did ...

Well, actually, lend lease payments from the UK might be completed at the end of this year.

BTW, at no point have we lent out the trillion dollars in debt that are held in Asia.

Together, the East Asian countries have accumulated foreign currency surpluses of nearly $1 trillion, much of it held in US Treasury bonds denominated in dollars.

[jonesieQ]

Originally Posted by primal muse

there is no american dream, which is why its sad that people like you bought it hook line and sinker.

It may not look like it but there is an "American dream". Read some history on English life & law in the 16th and 17th centuries, then read the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Remember that the rest of the western world was living under monarchical rule at the time. In fact what we accomplished was extraordinary. And the fact that we're still here, bitching and moaning, means that we've succeeded in holding onto these democratic ideals. Give credit where due.

Yeah, we've lost our way...who hasn't? In fact many times. And many times we found our way back. If America is known for one thing it's its constant state of change and flux. Don't give up.

[jonesieQ]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

I don't doubt it one bit. I'm in the middle of this book, Nickel and Dimed and it has really opened my eyes as to why people are trapped in low wage jobs, not to mention why no one has time or energy to stand up for anything, anymore. I have no doubt the system is this way by design, either.

Excellent book...sad and depressing, but pulls us out of the trees to see the forest. And there's no question that the vortex has given industry, government and the wealthy a free pass for decades. Thank you Mr. Greenspan, et al..

[Undertoad]

I think it goes like this

The teenager understands 20% of the world, and believes s/he understands 80%.

The adult understands 30%, and believes s/he understands 60%.

The elderly adult understands 40% and believes s/he understands 40%.

[jonesieQ]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Now you're totally wrong here. The government is doing exactly what they are being paid to do....by those who pay the most.....to benefit those that pay the most. You surely don't think that piddling few thousand dollars you kick in counts, do you?
Perhaps you mean they aren't doing the job they were elected to do.

The people I've voted for CAN'T do their job because they're outnumbered by an administration and Congress that WON'T let them.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I despise people that discount opinions based on age, BUT...at 21, I don't think Primal has been rode hard and put up wet enough times to appreciate how hard life can be. I wanted to change the whole world at one time, then I wanted to just change the country. Now I'm happy to just keep my shit together..

I know exactly how that goes...but at the same time, that's like saying the system accomplished its mission...to so discourage change, to turn such a deaf ear, that there's no alternative but to hunker down, nose to the grindstone, and try to survive. Also known as oppression.

At 21 maybe Primal is frightened by the current conditions. I know I was - way back when. And way back then we did something about it. We marched, took tear gas, bled, some died, but we persisted, and our world changed. Difference today? Not enough of the young are united under a common banner. They're the only ones who are free enough of the vortex to get out there and make the change happen...that's what pisses me off when youth complains. Don't like it....THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT...we did...it's now their turn.

[jonesieQ]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I think it goes like this

The teenager understands 20% of the world, and believes s/he understands 80%.

The adult understands 30%, and believes s/he understands 60%.

The elderly adult understands 40% and believes s/he understands 40%.

Well said! Which is why we "seasoned" folk shouldn't be put off by the extremism of youth. In fact, we have a responsibility to pass on the knowledge if we want our kids to have a liveable world.

[Happy Monkey]

And then the world changes.

[Ibby]

Whoa, don't diss teens. I don't believe I understand more than 70%!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by jonesieQ

Well said! Which is why we "seasoned" folk shouldn't be put off by the extremism of youth. In fact, we have a responsibility to pass on the knowledge if we want our kids to have a liveable world.

[jonesieQ]

70%?...so with that blissful ignorance, get the hell out there and make the system change!! If your house & car won't be re-possessed, if you aren't hogtied to a job, if you don't have debt in the thousands, if you have no kids to feed and haven't had to face your mortality, then you have the time and wherewithal to make it happen! Make it happen, Cap'n!!

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by [B

xoxoxoBruce[/b]] Now I'm happy to just keep my shit together

amen brother