Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week

[Aliantha]

your argument was that 'the people' predated 'the country'. By your statement above, that's simply not correct.

Let's use China as an example. During the history of what we now know as China, there have been other names for the mass of land such as 'Mongolia' during Khans reign, and I think you'll find the language was different. I'm pretty sure Chinese people would not refer to themselves as Mongolian just because that's what China was once called. Things have changed a bit since Khan left the scene too. It's a different place now than it was then. Not the same.

The people who lived in what you now call America didn't speak the same language as you do and they definitely didn't call themselves american did they?

While this statement is true:

Israel is the land of the Jews in the same way that China is the land of Chinese people, Italy is the land of the Italian people, Greece is the land of the Greek, etc.

It certainly does not prove your argument that the people predated the country.

[Radar]

The Chinese people were in China before the country was called China and yes, they did speak CHINESE.

[Aliantha]

I believe the majority of Chinese people speak either Mandarin or Cantonese. I don't believe there is such a thing as Chinese as a language although you might say that all the languages spoken in China are Chinese...if you were ignorant enough to do so.

[Radar]

Mandarin & Cantonese are dialects of the CHINESE language. I happen to speak 4 languages myself and you would be a fool to challenge me on this.

[Aliantha]

I live in Australia and I speak English.

[Aliantha]

I happen to speak 4 languages myself and you would be a fool to challenge me on this.

Are you a Kung Fu Master? lol

[Radar]

No, but I am a cunning linguist, and a master debater.

[Aliantha]

I think you are a Kung Fu Master. srsly

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by Radar

There were people in America, before there was a U.S.A. There were people in China before there was a nation of China. The Chinese people were still Chinese before there was a China, and the people in America were Americans before we started using the term "Americans" to describe them. It's the same people regardless of what you call them.

Jews have ALWAYS lived in Israel even after the temple was destroyed. There has never been a single day during the last 3,000 years when Jewish people didn't live in Israel.

You are wrong, Radar.

Before there was a china, there were Han people and Qin people and Sichuan people and Canton people and Hakka people.
Qin Shi Huang Di conquered and united all of what we currently know as china. He personally created the chinese language, from his own Qin language, and standardized a method of writing across all of his empire. The people still continued to speak their own languages, but were forced to learn and write what we now know as chinese. The people still continued to be Han people and Qin people and Hakka people, and many still do to this day, while others have in the intervening centuries grown to identify as chinese.

You are definitely wrong in this case, radar. Maybe a different example would be more apt. They were not chinese on the virtue that they happened to live in what later eventually became china, they were not chinese by virtue of their ethnicity, they were not chinese by virtue of their language, they were not chines by virtue of their identity. They were not chinese.

[queequeger]

I give up. To blame the civilians for the Israelis using human shields wins it. You can't argue stupid.

If, lets say, someone used your brother for a human shield to clear out your neighbor's house because he was dealing drugs and guns, it would really be your fault anyway for not noticing your neighbor was a drug dealer. You deserve it. I don't even think UG would back you up on this one.

Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck how many languages you claim to speak, you'd come across just as big a douche in each of them. You reason like a block of cheese.

[DanaC]

Radar, you are a Zionist. Why do we expect any kind of rational response from you?

How can you see a list of dead children and lay the blame at the door of their grieving parents, refusing to lay any of the responsibility at the doors of those who killed them? Answer: because the life of twelve year old Palestinian is worth less to you than the life of a twelve year old Israeli. The life of an eighteen month old Palestinian toddler, is worth less to you than the life of an Israeli soldier. The life of a Palestinian is worth less to you than the life of a dog.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by queequeger

I give up. To blame the civilians for the Israelis using human shields wins it. You can't argue stupid.

If, lets say, someone used your brother for a human shield to clear out your neighbor's house because he was dealing drugs and guns, it would really be your fault anyway for not noticing your neighbor was a drug dealer. You deserve it. I don't even think UG would back you up on this one.

Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck how many languages you claim to speak, you'd come across just as big a douche in each of them. You reason like a block of cheese.

If my neighbor was shooting everyone in the neighborhood on a shooting spree for no apparent reason, and I picked up his own child to use as a human shield, there would be no fault in it. If you think there would be, you are part of the problem. If he shoots his own child, he's the monster. If he shoots the neighbors he's the monster. If I seek shelter from his unwarranted killing spree behind his children who he is presumably less likely to shoot at, I am NOT the monster.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Radar, you are a Zionist. Why do we expect any kind of rational response from you?

Because I'm a Zionist and Zionists give intelligent, thoughtful, well-reasoned, articulate, truthful, and rational responses while anti-Zionists attempt to justify murder, falsely claim to be victims when they are predators, and otherwise spread stupidity and lies about Israel.

Originally Posted by DanaC

How can you see a list of dead children and lay the blame at the door of their grieving parents, refusing to lay any of the responsibility at the doors of those who killed them? Answer: because the life of twelve year old Palestinian is worth less to you than the life of a twelve year old Israeli. The life of an eighteen month old Palestinian toddler, is worth less to you than the life of an Israeli soldier. The life of a Palestinian is worth less to you than the life of a dog.

The life of a 12 year old so-called Palestinian or that of a toddler is worth as much as the life of any other 12 year old. I think it's a tragedy that the so-called Palestinian people don't value the lives of their children and place them in harm's way and endanger them by attacking Israel and then hiding amongst them. It's a shame that they want to kill Jews more than they love their children and that they raise their children to strap bombs to themselves and kill Jews.

The one who killed them is not the guy who fired the missile in response to a terrorist act. The one who killed them is the terrorist who endangered them by hiding amongst them.

In L.A. a year or two ago, a guy shot up a bunch of cops and came outside holding his 1 year old baby in front of himself as a human shield. He was the aggressor. He attacked the police. And he endangered his baby by using her as a human shield. The baby was killed and the death of that baby did not rest on the shoulders of the police who were trying to take this murderer out, it rests on the shoulders of the guy who started shooting at police in the first place. In this example, if the police used his child as a human shield, they would not be endangering his child, but if the murderer uses the child he would.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Ibram

You are wrong, Radar.

Before there was a china, there were Han people and Qin people and Sichuan people and Canton people and Hakka people.
Qin Shi Huang Di conquered and united all of what we currently know as china. He personally created the chinese language, from his own Qin language, and standardized a method of writing across all of his empire. The people still continued to speak their own languages, but were forced to learn and write what we now know as chinese. The people still continued to be Han people and Qin people and Hakka people, and many still do to this day, while others have in the intervening centuries grown to identify as chinese.

You are definitely wrong in this case, radar. Maybe a different example would be more apt. They were not chinese on the virtue that they happened to live in what later eventually became china, they were not chinese by virtue of their ethnicity, they were not chinese by virtue of their language, they were not chines by virtue of their identity. They were not chinese.

I am not wrong. Han is a form of Chinese. In fact it's called "Han Chinese".

The following is from a wikipedia article...

Chinese or the Sinitic language(s) (汉语/漢語, Pinyin: Hànyǔ; 华语/華語, Huáyǔ; or 中文, Zhōngwén) can be considered a language or language family. Originally the indigenous languages spoken by the Han Chinese in China, it forms one of the two branches of Sino-Tibetan family of languages[3]. About one-fifth of the world’s population, or over 1 billion people, speak some form of Chinese as their native language. The identification of the varieties of Chinese as "languages" or "dialects" is controversial [4]. As a language family Chinese has an estimated nearly 1.2 billion speakers; Mandarin Chinese alone has around 850 million native speakers, outnumbering any other language in the world.

Spoken Chinese is distinguished by its high level of internal diversity, though all spoken varieties of Chinese are tonal and analytic. There are between six and twelve main regional groups of Chinese (depending on classification scheme), of which the most populous (by far) is Mandarin (c. 850 million), followed by Wu (c. 90 million), Min (c. 70 million) and Cantonese (c. 70 million). Most of these groups are mutually unintelligible, though some, like Xiang and the Southwest Mandarin dialects, may share common terms and some degree of intelligibility. Chinese is classified as a macrolanguage with 13 sub-languages in ISO 639-3, though the identification of the varieties of Chinese as multiple "languages" or as "dialects" of a single language is a contentious issue.

The standardized form of spoken Chinese is Standard Mandarin (Putonghua/Guoyu), based on the Beijing dialect. Standard Mandarin is the official language of the People's Republic of China, the Republic of China in Taiwan, as well as one of four official languages of Singapore. Chinese—de facto, Standard Mandarin—is one of the six official languages of the United Nations. Of the other varieties, Standard Cantonese is common and influential in Cantonese-speaking overseas communities, and remains one of the official languages of Hong Kong (together with English) and of Macau (together with Portuguese). Min Nan, part of the Min language group, is widely spoken in southern Fujian, in Taiwan (where it is known as Taiwanese or Hoklo) and in Southeast Asia (where it dominates in Singapore and Malaysia and is known as Hokkien).

Feel free to read more at...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language

[DanaC]

If my neighbor was shooting everyone in the neighborhood on a shooting spree for no apparent reason, and I picked up his own child to use as a human shield, there would be no fault in it.

I think you just blew my mind Radar. The fact that its his own child doesn't make it acceptable for you to put it at risk by using it as a shield. What an outrageous statement to make. I am appalled.