Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

This is just to good not to post in FULL

The Tom DeLay Democrats
So much for the President's pledge of C-Span transparency.

Rehabilitating Tom DeLay's reputation always seemed hopeless, or so we thought—but then again, President Obama ran on hope. Against the odds Democrats are making the former GOP Majority Leader look better by comparison as they bypass the ordinary institutions of deliberative democracy in the final sprint to pass ObamaCare.

Instead of appointing a formal conference committee to reconcile the House and Senate health bills, a handful of Democratic leaders will now negotiate in secret by themselves. Later this month, presumably white smoke will rise from the Capitol Dome, and then Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and the college of Democratic cardinals will unveil their miracle. The new bill will then be rushed through both chambers with little public scrutiny or even the chance for the Members to understand what they're passing.

Evading conference has become standard operating procedure in this Congress, though you might think they'd allow for the more open and thoughtful process on what Mr. Obama has called "the most important piece of social legislation since the Social Security Act passed in the 1930s and the most important reform of our health-care system since Medicare passed in the 1960s."

This black-ops mission ought to be a particular embarrassment for Mr. Obama, given that he campaigned on transparent government. At a January 2008 debate he said that a health-care overhaul would not be negotiated "behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-Span so the American people can see what the choices are."

The C-Span pledge became a signature of his political pitch. During a riff at the San Francisco Chronicle about "accountability," he added that "I would not underestimate the degree to which shame is a healthy emotion and that you can shame Congress into doing the right thing if people know what's going on."

Apparently this Congress knows no shame. In a recent letter to Congressional leaders, C-Span president Brian Lamb committed his network to airing "all important negotiations," which if allowed would give "the public full access, through television, to legislation that will affect the lives of every single American." No word yet from the White House.

At a press conference in December, even Mrs. Pelosi said that "we would like to see a full conference." One reason she mentioned was that "there is a great deal of work involved in reviewing a bill and seeing what all the ramifications are of it," though her real motive at the time was that a conference seemed like a chance to drag the bill closer to the House version.

With public support collapsing, however, Democrats now think the right bill is any bill—and soon. Democrats know that a conference forces the majority party to cast votes on awkward motions and would give the Republicans who have been shut out for months a chance to participate. This sunlight, and the resulting public attention, might scare off wavering Democrats and defeat the bill. Ethics rules the Democrats passed in 2007 also make it harder to "airdrop" into conference reports the extra bribes they will no doubt add to grease the way for final passage.

Democrats howled at the strong-arm tactics Mr. DeLay used to pass Medicare drug coverage in 2003, and so did we. But they've managed to create an even more destructive bill, and their tactics are that much worse. We can't even begin to imagine the uproar if the Republicans had tried to privatize Social Security with such contempt for the democratic process and public opinion.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...n_AboveLEFTTop

[TheMercenary]

And so it becomes the Secret Healthcare Bill of 2010....

President Barack Obama and congressional Democratic leaders agreed Tuesday to forgo a formal conference committee for reconciling the Senate and House health care bills, according to three Democratic congressional aides.


The decision means that the White House, Senate Majority Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will attempt to reach an agreement through private negotiations with key lawmakers. Once a deal is struck, the bill will go back to the House for passage, then to the Senate and on to the president’s desk — a legislative path that has been described as “ping pong.”


The decision to bypass the conference committee, which the aides said came during an Oval Office meeting Tuesday, formalized what many Democrats had long known: If they have any hope of passing the health care bill quickly, they would need to circumvent the normal order of business.


But the move — though not unusual in the increasingly gridlocked Congress — has drawn sharp criticism from Republicans and even some Democrats, who say Obama is not living up to his promise of a transparent process.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz0bqoReeUo

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And so it becomes the Secret Healthcare Bill of 2010....

Yeah, it sounds like Bush's Energy Task Force and the resulting legislation.

[classicman]

President Barack Obama signaled to House Democratic leaders Wednesday that they'll have to drop their opposition to taxing high-end health insurance plans to pay for health coverage for millions of uninsured Americans.

In a meeting at the White House, Obama expressed his preference for the insurance tax contained in the Senate's health overhaul bill, but largely opposed by House Democrats and organized labor, Democratic aides said. The aides spoke on condition of anonymity because the meeting was private.

Wait what?

House Democrats want to raise income taxes on high-income individuals instead and are reluctant to abandon that approach, while recognizing that they will have to bend on that and other issues so that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., can maintain his fragile 60-vote majority support for the bill.

Pelosi and four committee chairmen met with the president Wednesday as they scrambled to resolve differences between sweeping bills passed by the House and Senate. The aim is to finalize legislation revamping the nation's health care system in time for Obama's State of the Union address early last month.

"We've had a very intense couple of days," Pelosi said. "After our leadership meeting this morning, our staff engaged with the Senate and the administration staff to review the legislation, suggest legislative language. I think we're very close to reconciliation."

Congressional staff members stayed at the White House into the evening to continue work and a conference call of the full House Democratic caucus was scheduled for Thursday.

Hey Redux, Is this just the normal course of business in Washington or is this something special?

Originally Posted by classicman

Wait what?

The House and Senate bills differ on the funding sources...the House has a surcharge on personal income over $500K and the Senate has a tax on high end health plans.

I expect it will end with a little of both. The level of income for the surcharge and the type of high end policies that will be taxed with both be modified as compromise. There are other differences to be resolved as well.

Personally, I prefer the House bill (taxing the rich, including a public option, stronger anti-trust provisions) but the Senate usually gets its way and the final bill will probably look pretty much like the Senate bill...and might even attract a few more Democrats in the House who voted against it the first time around because of the cost..the Senate version is about $150 billion cheaper.

Hey Redux, Is this just the normal course of business in Washington or is this something special?

The process is normally to have a conference committee made up of a small number of members from both the House and Senate to work out the differences and normally from both parties.

But there are numerous examples over the years, with either party in the majority, where that process has been expedited...for various reasons.

The conference committee does not look for new amendments or new proposals to dramatically change either bill, but to find the way to address the differences that those who voted FOR the bills can accept.

In this case, since NO Republicans voted for the bill in either the House or Senate AND.they have made it clear that they will not vote for either bill, the only role they would play on the conference committee would be to further obstruct and delay the process.

And to answer your question...normal? No, but hardly unprecedented either. And more often than the critics would lead you to believe.

Originally Posted by classicman

Link

I think it is great that the private sector is looking for ways to cut costs. It is long over-due.

But that still wont address the needs of the uninsured to have access to affordable health insurance and to the security to those with insurance that they wont face exlusions for pre existing conditions or potential bankruptcy from excessive out of pocket costs.

And the bills include incentives and tax breaks for the private sector when it does demonstrate cost containment.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

The process is normally to have a conference committee made up of a small number of members from both the House and Senate to work out the differences and normally from both parties.

But there are numerous examples over the years, with either party in the majority, where that process has been expedited...for various reasons.

The conference committee does not look for new amendments or new proposals to dramatically change either bill, but to find the way to address the differences that those who voted FOR the bills can accept.

In this case, since NO Republicans voted for the bill in either the House or Senate AND.they have made it clear that they will not vote for either bill, the only role they would play on the conference committee would be to further obstruct and delay the process.

And to answer your question...normal? No, but hardly unprecedented either. And more often than the critics would lead you to believe.

Is that the latest Democratic Talking Point? Pretty weak attempt to sweep the gravity of the process for this Bill under the rugs. Man the Dems and Obama are really taking a chance of getting screwed come Nov when they lose the super majority in the Senate and we have 2 years of gridlock.

And the bills include incentives and tax breaks for the private sector when it does demonstrate cost containment.

To bad it does little to control costs on the supply side or prevent insurance companies from charging whatever they want for co-pays and deductables. That alone makes this Bill and epic failure. Not to mention all the people who will not get health insurance like the Dems and Obama promised them...

[classicman]

Seven hundred billion dollars. That's a ballpark estimate of how much money is wasted in the U.S. medical system every single year, according to a new Thomson Reuters (TRI) report. A sum equal to roughly one-third of the nation's total health-care spending is flushed away on unnecessary treatments, redundant tests, fraud, errors, and myriad other monetary sinkholes that do nothing to improve the nation's health. Cut that figure by half, and there would be more than enough money to offer top-notch care to every one of America's 46 million uninsured.

None of the health-care reform bills on the table in Washington do anything meaningful to address that wasted $700 billion. Nor do they call for changes in the underlying flaw that drives much of the waste—the fee-for-service system that pays doctors and hospitals for the amount of medical care delivered rather than for its quality. Under fee-for-service there is no financial incentive for doctors to eliminate waste, since they wouldn't pocket any of the resulting savings. They would just earn less.

By leaving this perverse reward system in place, Congress is virtually guaranteeing that health-care reform legislation, if passed, will do nothing to "bend the curve" of rising health-care costs, as President Barack Obama originally set out to do. Even the few cost-cutting efforts that the bills do include won't go into effect until at least 2013. As a result, U.S. health spending is on track to double over the next 10 years, to $5.2 trillion, about 21% of the gross domestic product.

Or possibly not. Politicians may be reluctant to rein in the medical-industrial complex, but the private sector is forging ahead. Faced with health-care costs that keep rising 6% to 7% every year—even during this year of negative overall inflation—plenty of insurers, hospitals, employers, and communities are figuring out how to offer better care for less money. They are willing to take experimental leaps in an attempt to solve some of the health system's most intractable problems.
A BIG STEP FORWARD

BusinessWeek has looked at 10 such attempts to lower health-care costs and improve patient care. These innovations cannot have the same impact as a comprehensive federal bill. Nor are the gains from private efforts assured. Paul B. Ginsburg, president of the nonprofit Center for Studying Health System Change, cautions that "there are a lot of things we know can improve health, such as wellness programs. But we don't know if they can save money on a large scale."

Still, companies and hospitals are taking the initiative, and some results are in plain view. "Three years ago, professional medical organizations were very reluctant to talk about inappropriate treatments, but I already see that changing," says Robert Kelley, vice-president for health-care analytics at Thomson Reuters. He points out that the American College of Cardiology recently published several standards of care for angioplasty and other common treatments, aimed at preventing unnecessary and costly interventions. Given that about one in six U.S. health-care dollars is currently spent on cardiovascular procedures, "that's a big step forward," says Kelly. Here are some others.

Link

[SamIam]

President Barack Obama signaled to House Democratic leaders Wednesday that they'll have to drop their opposition to taxing high-end health insurance plans to pay for health coverage for millions of uninsured Americans.

YAY, Classicman! The person speaking up for the rights of those in gated communities. I'm sure they're opening offshore accounts even as we speak. How DARE they give back even a little to their own nation which has helped make their success possible.

And as far as party gravey trains and kickbacks, are you expecting us to be shocked somehow? Republicans get New York strip steaks and the Dems get lobster. This has been happening since the first Congressional Congress and will continue. So, for heaven's sake let's stop playing Henny Penny.

[TheMercenary]

[quote=SamIam;624482]

President Barack Obama signaled to House Democratic leaders Wednesday that they'll have to drop their opposition to taxing high-end health insurance plans to pay for health coverage for millions of uninsured Americans.[/QUOTE=]

YAY, Classicman! The person speaking up for the rights of those in gated communities. I'm sure they're opening offshore accounts even as we speak. How DARE they give back even a little to their own nation which has helped make their success possible.

And as farm as party gravey trains and kickbacks, are you expecting us to be shocked somehow? Republicans get New York strip steaks and the Dems get lobster. This has been haooening since the first Congressional Congress and wil continue. So, for heaven's sake let's stop playing Henny Penny.

You are attacking the wrong people here.... It is the blue collar unions who are demanding the Dems get it out of the bill...

[SamIam]

[quote=TheMercenary;624483]

Originally Posted by SamIam

You are attacking the wrong people here.... It is the blue collar unions who are demanding the Dems get it out of the bill...

Yes the unions want it out, but so does big business. Unions worry that as currently structured, the bill would take a considerable chunk out of their pocketbooks. Big business doesn't want to spend anything except on CEO salaries and golden parachutes.

The Senate health bill would impose an excise tax on health insurance plans with premiums of at least $8,500 for individuals and $23,000 for families. Proponents say the measure, which would raise $149 billion by 2019, would not only raise money to insure the uninsured but would help control costs by discouraging employers and insurance companies from offering overly generous plans.

But both labor and business oppose it. Business groups say it would shift the burden to employers, while organized labor says it would shift the burden to workers. Both agree that the end result would be lower wages and benefits.

The A.F.L.-C.I.O. prefers the House health care bill, which would not tax benefits but instead would raise money by taxing the wealthy.

http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.c...insurance-tax/

[classicman]

Originally Posted by SamIam

So, for heaven's sake let's stop playing Henny Penny.

Whats that? I'm not familiar with that expression.

[Happy Monkey]

Any attempt to fix that will be called "rationing" and "death panels".

[TheMercenary]

Obama tells em, "Fuck Some Transparency boys and girls, get one done for The Man and get a bill on my desk no matter how shitty!"

The White House was put on the defensive Wednesday after President Barack Obama pushed congressional leaders to fast-track health care legislation behind closed doors despite his campaign promises of an open process.

"The president wants to get a bill to his desk as quickly as possible," Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said as reporters questioned him repeatedly about Obama's decision to go along with House and Senate leaders in bypassing the usual negotiations between the two chambers in the interest of speed.

The decision was made in an Oval Office meeting Tuesday evening with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and his No. 2, Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., joined in by phone.

They agreed that rather than setting up a formal conference committee to resolve differences between health bills passed last year by the House and Senate, the House will work off the Senate's version, amend it and send it back to the Senate for final passage, according to a House leadership aide, speaking on condition of anonymity in order to discuss the private meeting.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/new...alth_care.html

[classicman]

The A.F.L.-C.I.O. prefers the House health care bill, which would not tax benefits but instead would raise money by taxing the wealthy.

Not saying its right or wrong, but who wouldn't want something
that someone else is paying for?

[SamIam]

Something does not have value because someone else paid for them. I can go get a nice free dose of radiation from the uranium pilings just north of here. I can go get a nice lungful of toxic air in either Mexico City or Beijing. Doesn't cost me a thing. And on and on. You're so in to freebies, you should go research them for the rest of us. Hint: don't take along your common sense.