Merc - Wtf?

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by DanaC

No. They are not the same thing.

i think I explained somewhere in this thread that, you might not agree, but I absolutely believe that upholding oppression, ignoring oppression, promoting oppression, and most of all telling oppressed people how the oppressors think they should fix their oppression are all equally oppressive.

[orthodoc]

No, Ibby, it's all about PEOPLE. You're the classic 'I love mankind, it's people I can't stand' Bolshevist. You relish your delicious vicarious victimization, when you've never experienced anything more painful than waiting for the seniors you sent out into the snow to buy you booze to return so you can double-check the receipts to make sure they didn't rip you off. Goddamned seniors need to be sent the way of Boxer once they outlive their usefulness in providing for your addictions, right?

Before you say one more thing, before you demand that one more human being on this planet do as you say, you need to be parachuted into some remote place where mommy and daddy don't pay for your booze and drugs and cheese, where you need to work your ass off to hopefully scrape a meagre meal at the end of the day, and then do it again for years ... where you will suffer serious physical harm for calling everyone who disagrees with you a CUNT ... where you need to shut your mouth and do more thinking, indulge in far less verbal diarrhea in the presence of people who have actually lived and suffered and grieved and persevered in the face of tons of 'unfairness'. Because life is unfair. Once you venture out from between your parents' legs you'll find that that's the case. And the best way of learning something about the world is to STFU and observe, and stop bleating your hubris into the darkness long enough to actually listen.

You need only look in the mirror to see a huge racist, sexist, heterophobic scumbag bigot. You've been well indoctrinated. You don't have a single original thought; everything you spew is worked-over rants from bigger minds and bigger souls than yours.

Let go of the parental lifeline and go live your life for ten years; then continue shutting up for ten more years; then maybe, maybe, think about saying something. Chances are it'll be something much more tempered, much more compassionate, than anything that has occurred to your fevered, drugged up little brain thus far.

I wouldn't have said any of this if I thought you were worthless. God help me, since I posted that no one is worthless you have challenged my statement every single day. Prove me wrong.

[sexobon]

People here have less to fear from bigots than they do from being intolerably irritating.

[DanaC]

That's way harsh, Ortho. I dont like the way this whole thing panned out and I really didn't want this to turn into an anti Merc thread, but Ibs has good reason to feel anger towards him. And to hold up Ibs' life and say she doesn;t know the meaning of suffering, which is in effect what you are saying, and doesn't know the meaning of struggle dismisses life experiences that neither of us have or understand.

[orthodoc]

I disagree, Dana. If I don't know every detail of Ibby's life, neither does Ibby know the details of the lives she judges, condemns, and dismisses from the safety of her paid-for college situation. Ibby craps on the life experiences of those who have fought, suffered, and continued to struggle for everything she holds dear. Ibby wants to tell everyone how to live, but Ibby hasn't lived yet. Some irony? Ibby is a misandrist heterophobe by her own declaration, yet bigot she is not, by her own assertion. I call bullshit. Ibby is a child who has dutifully absorbed every scrap of information, regardless of bias, that feeds her resentments and rages and desire for vicarious violence, and spews it all back at others as gospel.

I avoid Ibby whenever possible. It's usually easy, because Ibby, by her own admission, doesn't frequent threads where people actually communicate concern for each other. But - I am tired of being called names when Ibby doesn't even know me; I'm tired of Ibby ordering people around and calling people vile names when she doesn't know the first thing about those people. And she certainly only knows that shades exist, that multiple aspects are relevant, in her own case. She doesn't extend that courtesy to anyone else.

I have lived and suffered things Ibby knows absolutely nothing about, including being truly hungry on an ongoing basis. I've lived in places Ibby knows nothing about, but oh no, Ibby knows all. Ibby will instruct us all. I think Ibby would benefit most by shutting up for a long time and going out into the world and just surviving, and learning, and seeing that people have many sides, good and bad. The world just isn't all about Ibby.

[Ibby]

I love it when people go out of their way to prove to me that they're awful people.
ANYONE who is more butthurt about people calling out oppression than people perpetrating oppression instantly lets me write them off. Handy, ain't it?

[ZenGum]

Ibby, that last post just lost you my respect. Childish, racist, and the message is self-centred and false.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Ibby, that last post just lost you my respect. Childish, racist, and the message is self-centred and false.

It is indeed a tragedy that Ibby has migrated towards sociopathic tendencies like pensive pam; but, that's what fear does to people especially when exacerbated by alcohol and left untreated to manifest as paranoia.

[Ibby]

I'm sober as a stone, working on an essay for my Global Social Problems class about cissexism and transmisogyny.





Oh, hey, do my first two paragraphs sound a lot like what I'm saying in this thread?
holy shit! they do!
maybe because... anyone who's studied institutional oppression in a serious way knows that I'm not talking out of my ass, but rather, I'm advocating the academic consensus?
What? you mean there's more to oppression than your widdle hurt fee-fees? Damn right there is!
Does Ibby maybe have the slightest idea what she's talking about, having taken at least five college-level classes on various aspects of oppression/human rights, and more importantly, talked extensively with activists and actual oppressed people about their experiences and the realities of oppression? Damn right she has!

So, whatever, call me juvenile, call me reverse-racist. I'll call you oppressor.
I'll be right, and history will prove you wrong when things get slowly better without you.

edit to add:

Originally Posted by sexobon

but, that's what fear does to people...

If I am afraid, it is because I fear my oppressors. If I am afraid, it is because clearly the Cellar is not the safe space that I once thought of it as. If I am afraid, it is people like you I fear. If I am afraid, it proves you are in the wrong. If I am afraid, it is only right that I strike back at those who would oppress me.

[Griff]

Maybe you should go to a trade school, learn welding or HVAC... I'm only half-kidding.

[Ibby]

The Cellar: Where calling somebody a bigot is worse than being one!
(i kid, I kid.)
(...mostly.)

[sexobon]

You are afraid and disproportionately so. Your sober moments are tainted by your chronic alcoholism and transcendent paranoia. You lack the raw intelligence to do anything other than strike back like a wounded animal and you wear your identity like a handicapped placard on your sleeve. You're a disgrace to any cause you advocate for as long as you're a self made nobody hiding behind a virtual wall crying wolf. Being afraid proves nothing about anyone else as your judgment is that of a coward who like other impotent cowards has become addicted to attention whoring as a substitute for meaningful relationships. Try sociopaths anonymous.

[Ibby]

Whoa. What? I can't tell if you're projecting or just making shit up whole cloth?Like, okay, i drink beer. yeah? What's your point? I'm not, like, a drunk. I have like two or three beers like two out of three nights? On weekends I sometimes go out with friends or make myself a couple cocktails? that doesn't sound like the kind of problem youre talking about, that sounds like... college.

I'm not even gonna touch that bit about my intelligence.

I wear my identity like someone like Sarge wears the Flag. Proudly, without shame or apology. I don't hold anything about it back, including my absolute belief in social justice and shining a light on oppression, calling it out, whenever i see it. If that's like a handicapped placard to you, we must have a different idea of what the placard represents.

I don't hide behind a virtual wall. I call people out in public. I risk my actual physical safety doing this kind of thing in real life. People get just as frothingly upset as you are, now, at having their shit pointed out, in real life, too. I stand my ground as long as it's safe to.

I'm a nobody, sure. cause i'm a 21 year old student. I don't think I know more than a handful of 21-year-old college students who arent nobodies?

I don't understand what there is about telling oppressors that they're being oppressive that is cowardly. People get killed every day in this country for standing up to oppressors, by pissing off patriarchal men, by being too black too late at night, for refusing to conform to gender roles, for loving the wrong person, or the wrong gender, in the wrong neighboorhood. There are people here on this site who know my full name, and the city I live in, and in fact could find where in the city i live pretty easily. If this were a site like 4chan or reddit i would be getting death threats right about now. I personally know quite a few people who HAVE gotten death threats. In the cellar, I only get ad hominem vitriol from many, ambivalence from most. On a site where people actually care about not being oppressive, i would get apologies and "gosh, I didn't realize that saying things like that is offensive/wrong/harmful! What could I say instead that would be less oppressive?".
I'm sorry i hurt your feefees but you're being ridiculous. if you cared half as much about shutting down oppressors as you do about defending them you'd be a powerful ally for justice.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Ibby

Whoa. What? I can't tell if you're projecting or just making shit up whole cloth? ... me me me me me ... I'm sorry i hurt your feefees but you're being ridiculous. if you cared half as much about shutting down oppressors as you do about defending them you'd be a powerful ally for justice.

I just wanted to let you know how your virtual communication style makes others feel. Did you enjoy it?

I'm sorry if I hurt your feefees but you've been obnoxious. If you cared half as much about gaining allies as you do about shutting down oppressors you'd be a powerful advocate for justice.

[Ibby]

Aww, does the ally want a cookie?





Yeah, no, we make fun of allies. Allies are part of the problem, people patting themselves on the back while refusing to confront their own actions. Just being an ally doesn't excuse you from being oppressive.

EDIT oh sorry almost forgot my favorite cookie



see also http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc9qpmCFPT1qhisau.png, http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc...k3tso1_500.png, http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb...k3tso1_400.png,
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9...ao2_r1_400.jpg ("things allies say"), http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9...o10_r1_400.jpg (more "things allies say"), http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9iwdqF82h1qar70f.jpg (that thing you're all saying)...