Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[classicman]

Originally Posted by glatt

would you rather rush to fix them now

no, do it right or don't do it at all. The last time we rushed to get something done ...well we are still finding BILLIONS in waste from that one.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by classicman

no, do it right or don't do it at all. The last time we rushed to get something done ...well we are still finding BILLIONS in waste from that one.

That's your opinion, and that's fine. But you are choosing to have illegal immigrants use the ER when they get a sore throat and we all foot the bill for that in increased medical costs. Why would you choose that?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by glatt

That's your opinion, and that's fine. But you are choosing to have illegal immigrants use the ER when they get a sore throat and we all foot the bill for that in increased medical costs. Why would you choose that?

lol - I wouldn't - they would be outta here if it were up to me. They'd get one shot at that and be gone when they were done. The next major project comparable to the Hoover Dam, would be a wall on our southern border - think of the employment opportunity there... and the potential long term jobs it would create.

The less of them draining our system and denying our citizens of care , the better. Perhaps we'd have a few more employed citizens too. Just a thought.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by classicman

HM - With car insurance, which the Gov't DOES NOT PROVIDE, we are each assessed on our own risks/history.

That was in response to the question of mandating coverage to private industry, which is part of the plan. Having a public option in addition to that is a different issue. Having single payer instead is another different issue.

There are plenty of those who still drive without.

People who drive without are breaking the law, unless there's some exception I don't know about.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

But isn't mandating private coverage better than running the coverage program themselves?

I would have to guess that this would be the lesser of two evils.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Think of it this way: No more people (of any immigration/citizen status) using the ER as a revolving door free clinic.

Sorry missed this post earlier - Yes, that would be a benefit if it actually got enforced, which I, unfortunately, don't think it will.

Originally Posted by classicman

Also, there are some very basic issues not being addressed - just off the cuff - Will medicare and/or medicaid be replaced, eliminated or modified?

Exactly how are we increasing the # of insured while decreasing costs SPECIFICALLY.

How are we going to provide services without rationing increase demand by as much as 25% while not increasing the supply of providers.

None of these have been addressed - still. I would think these would be at the top of the list when considering something of this magnitude. I wonder why that is.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

People who drive without are breaking the law, unless there's some exception I don't know about.

Yet it happens every single day.

This is an interesting exchange with Kathleen Sebelius...

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

People who drive without are breaking the law, unless there's some exception I don't know about.

Originally Posted by classicman

Yet it happens every single day.

Then I guess I don't see the problem. Criminals notwithstanding, mandating coverage is a proven workable system. I thought you were pointing out some difference between auto insurance and possible mandated health insurance.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Then I guess I don't see the problem. Criminals notwithstanding, mandating coverage is a proven workable system. I thought you were pointing out some difference between auto insurance and possible mandated health insurance.

Paying for mandated health insurance is the problem.

[Undertoad]

The Republicans can't do health care reform, like Clinton can't do welfare reform.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

The Republicans can't do health care reform, like Clinton can't do welfare reform.

Good point, but the republican haven't addressed health care reform, and show no signs of doing so on their own.

[Undertoad]

Medicare prescription drug plan notwithstanding, I guess.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by classicman

Also, there are some very basic issues not being addressed - just off the cuff - Will medicare and/or medicaid be replaced, eliminated or modified?

Exactly how are we increasing the # of insured while decreasing costs SPECIFICALLY.

How are we going to provide services without rationing increase demand by as much as 25% while not increasing the supply of providers.

Originally Posted by classicman

None of these have been addressed - still. I would think these would be at the top of the list when considering something of this magnitude. I wonder why that is.

I'm not sure if you're asking us or the government to address these issues, but I can answer the second one for you: once someone is insured, even if it's against their will initially, they can now go to a normal family doctor for their sore throat instead of the ER. This will save huge amounts of money right off the bat, because a family clinic simply does not cost as much to run as a hospital. Hospital resources are wasted on non-emergency treatments, and that's a cost that the rest of us subsidize one way or another. What's more, when someone is insured, they are more likely to go in for preventive care and early checkups of symptoms, and thus may never need the emergency surgery they would have required if the disease sat until it could no longer be ignored. We all save the cost of that surgery, too.

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I'm not sure if you're asking us or the government to address these issues, but I can answer the second one for you: once someone is insured, even if it's against their will initially, they can now go to a normal family doctor for their sore throat instead of the ER.

I have insurance. Last time I got a sinus infection I called my doctors office and told them what was going on (sinus infection, visible swelling on my face). It was a Friday am and I didn't want to suffer all weekend but my doctor didn't want to see me or call in a prescription for antibiotics. She instructed me to go to the ER.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I'm not sure if you're asking us or the government to address these issues, but I can answer the second one for you: once someone is insured, even if it's against their will initially, they can now go to a normal family doctor for their sore throat instead of the ER. This will save huge amounts of money right off the bat, because a family clinic simply does not cost as much to run as a hospital. Hospital resources are wasted on non-emergency treatments, and that's a cost that the rest of us subsidize one way or another. What's more, when someone is insured, they are more likely to go in for preventive care and early checkups of symptoms, and thus may never need the emergency surgery they would have required if the disease sat until it could no longer be ignored. We all save the cost of that surgery, too.

But the assumption here is that their family doctor will take the federally funded health program. If the reimbursement is to low many doctors just will not see those patients, like they do now with Medicare/Medicaid.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

I'm not sure if you're asking us or the government to address these issues, but I can answer the second one for you: once someone is insured, even if it's against their will initially, they can now go to a normal family doctor for their sore throat instead of the ER. This will save huge amounts of money right off the bat, because a family clinic simply does not cost as much to run as a hospital. Hospital resources are wasted on non-emergency treatments, and that's a cost that the rest of us subsidize one way or another. What's more, when someone is insured, they are more likely to go in for preventive care and early checkups of symptoms, and thus may never need the emergency surgery they would have required if the disease sat until it could no longer be ignored. We all save the cost of that surgery, too.

They have also been talking about rewarding doctors for preventative treatment on patients so they don't end up with more costly disease treatments later on. I think that is a great idea. If you can get a patient to quit smoking or lose weight, that should be an incentive for the doctor. Preventative medicine will help lower costs a LOT, IF we can shift the stinking thinking in this country.

I'm also hoping *fingers crossed* that somehow the whole issue of how food is grown in this country is brought into the debate. The movie Food, Inc. comes out this month, and that is a HUGE problem in this country that adds to health care costs. The food itself is unhealthy. Obesity is huge problem, and there are many problems that go along with that. Also, many people who aren't fat are still not FIT, and that means they are unhealthy and that also causes health problems.

Another thing that is a major problem is the cost of care in the last few months of life. We need to find a way to reduce those costs.

A couple of thoughts, I know someone said something about this earlier, but the cost of executive pay in the insurance industry is one reason why costs are so high. I imagine the reason why insurance companies turn down so many claims is because they have to in order to keep their executives living high on the hog. And so people who have been paying for insurance end up in bankruptcy or losing their life savings or their homes because their claims are denied. Add to that the cost of advertising, something the government doesn't have to do, and that is another way how costs would come down. (No inflated salaries, no advertising costs.)

Here is a list of a few executive salaries for 2006-7 (you know they are even higher now): ANNUAL COMPENSATION OF HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY EXECUTIVES (2006 and 2007 figures):

• Ronald A. Williams, Chair/ CEO, Aetna Inc., $23,045,834
• H. Edward Hanway, Chair/ CEO, Cigna Corp, $30.16 million
• David B. Snow, Jr, Chair/ CEO, Medco Health, $21.76 million
• Michael B. MCallister, CEO, Humana Inc, $20.06 million
• Stephen J. Hemsley, CEO, UnitedHealth Group, $13,164,529
• Angela F. Braly, President/ CEO, Wellpoint, $9,094,771
• Dale B. Wolf, CEO, Coventry Health Care, $20.86 million
• Jay M. Gellert, President/ CEO, Health Net, $16.65 million
• William C. Van Faasen, Chairman, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3 million plus $16.4 million in retirement benefits
• Charlie Baker, President/ CEO, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, $1.5 million
• James Roosevelt, Jr., CEO, Tufts Associated Health Plans, $1.3 million
• Cleve L. Killingsworth, President/CEO Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3.6 million
• Raymond McCaskey, CEO, Health Care Service Corp (Blue Cross Blue Shield), $10.3 million
• Daniel P. McCartney, CEO, Healthcare Services Group, Inc, $ 1,061,513
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
• Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
• Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
• Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
http://www.slate.com/discuss/forums/post/2446099.aspx

(How many freaking CEOs does Blue Cross Blue Shield have anyway I wonder?)

Insurance Company CEO Compensation 2006-2007
Insurance Company Chief Executive Officer (CEO)
2007 Total Compensation 2006 Total Compensation

Aetna Ronald A. Williams $23,045,834 / $19,802,476

Cigna H. Edward Hanway $25,839,777 / $21,014,486

Coventry Dale B. Wolf $14,869,823 / $13,034,126

Health Net Jay M. Gellert $3,686,230 / $6,066,913

Humana Michael B. McCallister $10,312,557 / $5,798,613

UnitedHealth Group Stephen J. Hemsley $13,164,529 / $15,549,028

WellPoint Angela Braly (2007)
Larry C. Glasscock (2006) $9,094,271 / $23,886,169
http://www.insurancecompanyrules.org...tion_2006_2007


I'm afraid this won't get done because Obama is cowtowing to the very same people who have held up health care reform for the past century. Really, if republicans and the AMA and insurance companies had such great ideas on how to fix it, how come they haven't done anything? In my opinion they shouldn't get to have any input. Now they are using scare tactics, just like they have in the past, crying socialism. It worked in the past. I PRAY it doesn't work now. If we don't get it done, then the system will spiral even worse out of control than it is now. People here love to say we have the best system in the world, and they're right, IF you have money, or if you're lucky enough to have good insurance form your job. but even if you have good insurance, it isn't a guarantee that you will get the care you need. They can always deny your claim. Which they do a lot more often that most people realize.

Personally, I think we should base our system on France's system. France has the best system in the world, while we are number 37.

[Bitman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

They have also been talking about rewarding doctors for preventative treatment on patients ...

It's not the doctor's responsibility to take care of your body, it's *yours*. We need to given *you* an incentive to stay healthy -- by making you pay for your own health.

Another thing that is a major problem is the cost of care in the last few months of life. We need to find a way to reduce those costs.

It's physically impossible. If it costs less to extend your life, then you will live longer .. which increases the costs. It either costs an infinite amount of money to keep you alive, or someone must declare it's time for you to die. Who do you trust with that responsibility?

Here is a list of a few executive salaries for 2006-7

You're just trolling now. Capitalism is founded on people keeping what they earn. If you don't like it, you're free to attack capitalism. But don't go posting this crap pretending it has anything to do with health care.

I'm afraid this won't get done because Obama is cowtowing to the very same people who have held up health care reform for the past century.

That would be me. And I thank him for it.

Really, if republicans and the AMA and insurance companies had such great ideas on how to fix it, how come they haven't done anything? In my opinion they shouldn't get to have any input.

Now I'm confused. You want the government to take over health care, yet you admit they have no clue how to run it. What exactly are you arguing?