Self Policing Militia Summons

[skysidhe]

ok

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Huh? Redux was responding to a direct accusation from TheMercenary. He didn't say that out of the blue.

Oops. I don't necessarily always "read" the threads.

[lookout123]

Hasn't this been resolved yet?

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by BigV

thinkin out loud here....

A little bird told me I should read this thread; I have though it took me two days and my lips are really tired now. I didn't bother with it for at first because I just don't care what lumberjim says anymore. And that still applies. He has his standards, and mostly I don't think much of them.

This may be the most polite ad hominem insult I've received. But you realize that you've admitted that at one time you DID care what I said. Does this mean you're breaking up with me?

[lookout123]

Regardless of the outcome, thanks for the thread Jim. It has led me to look at my own relationship with the cellar and that is a good thing, I think.

It seems the Classic side of this equation has been settled while the Redux/Merc angle is still playing out. Some have said that Merc is a troll and to a degree I agree. In the politics forums he does troll for reactions with his "demoncrat" this and "republickan" that (or whatever his current names are) persistently. I find it unfortunate as I think he has some views which would be quite useful if they were presented in a more professional manner. If this thread causes him to stop and rethink his presentation then great, but I don't really think it will. I may be way off base but I picture Merc sitting at home chuckling to himself as he pushes the popcorn smilie button. It amuses him to stir the shit, which is definitely an attribute of a troll. (which can be fun if not overused) He offsets some of that by actually being a real person in the other threads though, so for me that is a positive.

It seems like the consensus is that Redux is not a troll because he posts grammatically correct spellchecked posts with citations. Fair enough, but imo Redux is every bit as much of a troll as Merc. The only real difference is Redux is better/more subtle at it. His posts drip with condescension for anyone who holds an opposite view. He rarely offers any insight as to why he believes something or what makes him tick. A thread is started and after a couple of people have posted their thoughts (usually without citations) he drops in some citations that would support an opposing view but gives no glimpse as to why his view of the world brings him to hold some things as good and some things as bad. He's like the cellar's resident research assistant, so long as you only want the left leaning research. Without any original thoughts his posts offer nothing of value, imo.

For me, the cellar is about people. 6 years ago I'd try to explain a story or interaction from the cellar to Mrs L and she thought I was an idiot for telling stories about the internet, but after all this time (with only intermittent first hand visits) she gets the cellar. While she doesn't visit often she asks about some of the events described, issues with kids, or someone's view on a particular issue. She understands the cellar is about the people and their personalities, not just a bunch of regurgitated facts. We have political aggregators for each partyline if that's all you're looking for. I don't really value posters, but I do appreciate dwellars.

That being said, this is a self policing community and as such will police itself. If the drama continues more dwellars will drift away which will be a shame, but the cellar will carry on as new people will come in and pick up where they left off. It is up to the individual dwellar to decide if the cellar (or any community) is a net positive or negative in their life and then decide to do something (or not) about it.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Hasn't this been resolved yet?

[BigV]

Some cherry picking trying to confine my observations to Redux and some quotes about and to him.

Originally Posted by monster

Redux for the Ban.

I disagree.

Originally Posted by monster

it's the only way in your case. We're all sick of you bringing shit from one forum and wiping it all over the board. Even here You are a professional dingleberry. You certainly need to use that as a use title if you don't get banned,

More of the exact behavior described as the problem, what hypocrisy. His "shit" isn't all over the board. Your complaint is that he's so monomaniacal about politics--it just doesn't go all over. You're wrong on the facts. "Professional dingleberry"? Real mature. Way to set an example. Way to be the change you want to see.

Originally Posted by monster

DON'T RESPOND! Duh! Yes it does address the problem. no response = no counter-response. Probelm Solved. Only a Dingleberry wouldn't see that.

more shouting... *yawn*

Originally Posted by monster

hooyah. ban. Your opinion of yourself is way too high. And your maturity level way too low. unless you are actually 12.

now self esteem is bannable? etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

No we aren't.

I, too, am not one of the all you proclaim are tired of his shit. You don't speak for me.

Originally Posted by monster

ARe you diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome? Or anything on that spectrum?

You're seriously misreading his posts. Completely so.

Originally Posted by Pete Zicato

I don't see that. It was pertinent to the discussion and civilly phrased. How was that cause for banning?

I agree. It's not.

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

*point 1*Except for that one time you were given suggestions, oh, and the other time, and the one after that, too. Your posts would improve on their own if you actually chose to be a member of the community, because you would actually know the people you were talking to, and that whole "the internet turns everyone into assholes" thing wouldn't be a factor anymore.


*point 2*This is a major part of your problem. Every post is full of this indignant "Tell me how" and "Give me one reason" and "Please explain to me how you" stuff. It's the way a teenager argues with an authority figure. If you have a point, make it. If you have evidence against the other person's point, show it. Anything that starts with "Please tell me how" is useless bickering.


*point 3*And this is the other major part of your problem. Again, like a teenager, you keep falling back on this "he started it" concept, that you expect us to respond "fairly" to you and your adversaries, or you're going to throw more temper tantrums. No one gives a shit. It's been explained to you repeatedly that when you "respond in kind," you make yourself the asshole, end of story.

*point 1*
Redux **is** a member of this community. He is highly unwelcome by some especially vocal members. Many are neutral, and some of us, like me, appreciate his posts for their content.

*point 2*
I hope you're kidding when you make this point. I ask all the time for help, for clarification of other people's points and ideas. It is flatly wrong to say that anything that starts with "please tell me how" is useless bickering. Your whole point here just sounds cranky, which is way out of character for you Clodfobble.

*point 3*
I agree with this point. There's a limit to the validity to "he started it" as an excuse for one's actions as an adult. That limit is greater than zero, and it can be a good starting point for an explanation as to why things started to go off the rails, but only if someone cares. Apparently you don't, so it has little value to you. Fair enough.

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I strongly disagree. I think there IS something to see here. Several people have expressed their displeasure with a disruptive presence within the community, and ignoring the problem will only drive away the valued participants and leave those of you who chose not to fight in the company of the few problem posters.

You are right in that it is not a moderator's role to weed out the unpopular amongst us. However, it is the Admin's role to foster an environment that is conducive to maximum participation by all members. Or at least, should be in my opinion. When a few are persistently and apparently willfully ruining that environment, and are unwilling or unable to stop it.....they need to be stopped. Again, IMO.

If, after all of this, Ute decides that inaction is the best course, then so be it. And you'll have more of the same. Won't that be lovely.

The nothing wolf is talking about is bannable behavior. I know you don't like Redux's ideas and his posts. You've said so clearly and repeatedly. I do like Redux's ideas and posts. Even you say the role of the moderator is not to ban unpopular members and I strongly agree with that statement. Redux is unpopular with some and popular with others. Redux is **NOT** willfully ruining our environment any more than you are or I am.

Heh. Remember, you actually have the power, yourself, to "stop it". Don't listen to it.

Originally Posted by Redux

For the record, I am not a plant or "put" here by anyone...nor do I have any affiliation with the Obama administration, the DNC or the Democratic party, other than being a registered Democrat.

UT...I would be happy to have a moderated discussion on posting styles if you think that would be helpful.

and

Originally Posted by Redux

UT....I dont feel it is necessary to share my personal life, nor should it be, in order to contribute to discussions...If I do want to share, it will most likely be in a PM....but its your house.

I'll be happy share a bit about my professional life if that would be helpful.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Merc, your advantage in political threads is that you're more of a real person in non-political threads. You're a real person, compared to Redux, because none of us get a sense of who he is in real life.

and

Originally Posted by lumberjim

I, for one, refuse to place any merit on your professional experience BECAUSE you are so adamant about remaining anon. you can't have your cake and eat it too.

These two pairs of posts elicit a rueful laugh from me.

OF COURSE Redux is a REAL PERSON. Are you kidding me? Redux, I caution you to dispense details of your personal life with the knowledge that they will never be private again. They will be known widely or less widely, but they'll be public forever. And even if you gave all of us here all of your details, how could we say even then that we "knew" you? monster imagined in a different thread recently how she'd characterized someone as "most likely to become a serial killer". I believe she said it in jest and in private, but when she found out later that the circumstances in this person's life were dramatically different from what she'd previously and incorrectly understood, she understood her assessment was unfair.

I doubt your situation is different. We know little about you but you're a real person to me. For those who demand more "proof" about your reality, I say keep your cake and let them keep their ignorance.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by BigV

Some cherry picking trying to confine my observations to Redux and some quotes about and to him.


I disagree.


More of the exact behavior described as the problem, what hypocrisy. His "shit" isn't all over the board. Your complaint is that he's so monomaniacal about politics--it just doesn't go all over. You're wrong on the facts. "Professional dingleberry"? Real mature. Way to set an example. Way to be the change you want to see.


more shouting... *yawn*


now self esteem is bannable? etc, etc.


I, too, am not one of the all you proclaim are tired of his shit. You don't speak for me.


You're seriously misreading his posts. Completely so.


I agree. It's not.


*point 1*
Redux **is** a member of this community. He is highly unwelcome by some especially vocal members. Many are neutral, and some of us, like me, appreciate his posts for their content.

*point 2*
I hope you're kidding when you make this point. I ask all the time for help, for clarification of other people's points and ideas. It is flatly wrong to say that anything that starts with "please tell me how" is useless bickering. Your whole point here just sounds cranky, which is way out of character for you Clodfobble.

*point 3*
I agree with this point. There's a limit to the validity to "he started it" as an excuse for one's actions as an adult. That limit is greater than zero, and it can be a good starting point for an explanation as to why things started to go off the rails, but only if someone cares. Apparently you don't, so it has little value to you. Fair enough.

The nothing wolf is talking about is bannable behavior. I know you don't like Redux's ideas and his posts. You've said so clearly and repeatedly. I do like Redux's ideas and posts. Even you say the role of the moderator is not to ban unpopular members and I strongly agree with that statement. Redux is unpopular with some and popular with others. Redux is **NOT** willfully ruining our environment any more than you are or I am.

Heh. Remember, you actually have the power, yourself, to "stop it". Don't listen to it.


and



and


These two pairs of posts elicit a rueful laugh from me.

OF COURSE Redux is a REAL PERSON. Are you kidding me? Redux, I caution you to dispense details of your personal life with the knowledge that they will never be private again. They will be known widely or less widely, but they'll be public forever. And even if you gave all of us here all of your details, how could we say even then that we "knew" you? monster imagined in a different thread recently how she'd characterized someone as "most likely to become a serial killer". I believe she said it in jest and in private, but when she found out later that the circumstances in this person's life were dramatically different from what she'd previously and incorrectly understood, she understood her assessment was unfair.

I doubt your situation is different. We know little about you but you're a real person to me. For those who demand more "proof" about your reality, I say keep your cake and let them keep their ignorance.

I respect the fact you have the chutzpah to point out the obvious.
Quite a few good points.
Especially the last about sharing information. I don't usually feel especially 'more real' after sharing mine. It just means I am being trusting enough to put some of it up for scrutiny. Not everyone is going to be flying the 'they're a real person now banner' Why would red want to take that step of trust as there is so much animosity.

Red, I still want to hear about the new restaurant though. I won't scrutinize the menu too much.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

This may be the most polite ad hominem insult I've received. But you realize that you've admitted that at one time you DID care what I said. Does this mean you're breaking up with me?

lumberjim, no insult was intended. In the past, when I knew less about you, I paid more attention to you. As time went on and I learned more about you, I realized that there was an increasing number of instances when I disagreed with your point of view and found the way you expressed it distasteful. Consequently, I just paid (much) less attention to what you said. This plan has worked well for me.

I get your joke. I usually get them, I usually find them unfunny. Yes, I realize and admit I once held you in higher esteem than I now do. I don't feel the need to reopen any of that shit show now. Nor do I feel the need to insult you. I think you're a smart guy, but with a mean streak. I don't like that, so I give us each the space to get along by mostly ignoring you.

Looking back, I could have made my whole post without that bit. I included it as a demonstration of my willingness to walk my talk. I hope you, and all the others here can find a way to enjoy the interactions here. This is an awesome place. I was just trying to illustrate one way I've succeeded in overcoming a difficulty *I* had that I think is similar to the point you opened the thread with.

[monster]

ooh look, everyone, Tikiman is here! The caped crusader once again arrives with a flaming torch to save the day, righting all wrongs and putting everyone back in their place. Hurrah!

[Shawnee123]

Eh, fuck this.

[gvidas]

If the complaint is that the intensity and length of dwellar-on-dwellar strife has increased, and shows no sign of cathartically ending itself or being otherwise resolved, then what caused it? We're talking about 20 years of society changing around the Cellar, during which time the moderation philosophy hasn't significantly changed. I don't really think that anyone named in this thread is uniquely responsible, in the sense that "if only so and so were gone this problem would never again arise."

- in the Cellar's time, the internet has gone mainstream. It's becoming a larger and larger part of people's lives. Does the ever-smaller gap between "stuff on the internet" and "real life" make it easier for people to be passionate about something they read on the internet?

- in America right now we're in the middle of a bubble of pretty strong partisanship, where peoples' political views are mostly either passionate or nonexistant. Is this just how politics are now?

I dunno. But I do think that the Cellar being able to resolve this in a way that doesn't force homogeneity is important, both for the Cellar's wellbeing and as an example of what the future of communities might hold.

[lumberjim]

Originally Posted by BigV

Some cherry picking to create drama where there is none and prove what an insane impression of the world I have.

Fixed


that

for

ya

[HungLikeJesus]

This thread seems to be tending towards that thing it's trying to prevent.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

This thread seems to be tending towards that thing it's trying to prevent.

It does rather.

I think we shuold all just go back to what we were doing (except for the obvious of course...).

I think the people who've been particularly singled out have all heard what the rest of have to say. Let's just leave it at that now eh?