8/21/2003: Huge pig sacrificed

[Whit]

      Welcome back Quzah. Have a nice weekend?

[quzah]

Originally posted by Whit
      Welcome back Quzah. Have a nice weekend?

Yeah, not too bad. Went over to Seattle, visited my sister. Hung out for a bit, had a good time.

Quzah.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally posted by quzah
If you really believe that they would choose to be spayed with you, do this:

1) Get a new born kitten.
2) Install a cat door.
3) Do not sterilize your cat.
4) Be amazed when your cat comes and goes as it pleases, running around the neighborhood mating at every oportunity.

You see, you are flat out wrong. Your animal would not choose to be sterilized. Period. No animal would choose sterlization. Since LB is so big on biology, this should be crystal clear. Remember "hard wired"? Well no animal on earth would choose sterilization, especially since the sterilization done commonly would alter their normal behavior.

You can pretend all you want that they'd like it, but the fact is, you're wrong. No animal would opt for this. It goes against their "hard wiring".

No animal would choose to be spayed or nutering. Period. You're kidding yourself if you say you believe otherwise.

That being said, I have never said it was a bad thing to keep the "pet population" under control. I simply stated that no animal would choose the operation. It is asanine to believe so.

Quzah.

I agree with Quzah here, up to a point, which is:

The animal can't choose. It can't tell us whether or not it opts for it. I believe before the bitchfest started and points were being made, someone made a post about (...anthro....humano... that word where we make animals seem human....morpha sumfin...)-ing them, but the fact is they don't have a choice.

As their caretakers, we choose for them. I choose to spay and neuter my pets because I believe it's the humane and responsible thing to do.

[LUVBUGZ]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
...someone made a post about (...anthro....humano... that word where we make animals seem human....morpha sumfin...)-ing them...

Onyx, I'm trying with all my might to only observe this conversation so as NOT to ensue another "bitchfest", but for edification purposes only, the word your looking for is anthropomorphism which in the context of this discussion means attributing human characteristics to animals

[OnyxCougar]

Yeah, what you said. Thanks, Luv.

[juju]

I believe the point was, if they could choose, hypothetically, would they? And the answer, of course, is no. :)

[Undertoad]

"Boy, you have a choice. You can have your nuts cut off, and live here with us in total comfort for the next fifteen years, with your every need attended to. You'll have a fortune in toys and loving attention, and absolutely the best medical care. Or, you can keep those nuts and take your chances with a week at the pound. You're kinda cute so maybe you have a 10% chance of being adopted before you get gassed. Of course your new owners might not be as nice as we are. We give you free will for a moment, what is your choice?"

[xoxoxoBruce]

Woof, face lick, face lick.

[quzah]

Originally posted by Undertoad
"Boy, you have a choice. You can have your nuts cut off, and live here with us in total comfort for the next fifteen years, with your every need attended to. You'll have a fortune in toys and loving attention, and absolutely the best medical care. Or, you can keep those nuts and take your chances with a week at the pound. You're kinda cute so maybe you have a 10% chance of being adopted before you get gassed. Of course your new owners might not be as nice as we are. We give you free will for a moment, what is your choice?"

Ah, there you see, this would be considered "under duress", and as such, wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

Quzah.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I just saw on the news a woman adopted a Doberman from a rescue site 10 days ago. Tonight it mauled her to death. I wonder if she was offering that same choice?

[Whit]

      So, UT, might I ask about your teenage years? I'm sure you stayed home happy and warm with all the comforts that entails. Certainly you never made any bad decisions like going out and chasing after any stray females, right?
      Of course you didn't. Otherwise you're assuming that animals are smarter than you.
      Me? I figure the animals would make the same instictive decision most youths I knew did. "Screw the 'wise choice' lets go out fight, get laid and have a great night out." My particular group actually tried to avoid the first part and focused on the second two parts. Also, we knew what we were doing was stupid and involved enormous risks. But our instincs said "do it" and so we did.
[Edit]       My point is to suggest that animals might go the same route. I know I'd put money on it.

[Undertoad]

Hey, I bagged several eligible females during my breeding peak, and these were excellent decisions, as was the phenomenal decision never to bag one without birth controls.

[Whit]

      I've got two kids and in both cases we were using birth control. Birth control doesn't eliminate the risk, it just reduces it. Read the damn instructions, they even say so.
      Regardless, you make my point. The animal, is you could explain the situation to it, would not choose to be spayed/neutered in most cases. I'm not saying it's not an excellent for us human to have our pets fixed. But the arguement was that the animal would choose it. Nope, don't buy it. And from what you say of you own history, neither do you.