Do You Own a Gun?

Musical interlude!

Guns 'N' Roses
Sex Pistols
38 Special ...

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I'm increasingly of the belief that this thread should be closed for protection of us all. Not only have two Dwellers resigned as a result of it, in a fit of pique, but yesterday J and I had a big fight over it. It seems to be causing some sort of weird change to the, er, natural order of things.

This thread is not the problem. Elsewhere, xoxoxoBruce, Urbane Guerrilla and Lumberjim, for example, are replying with profanity and personal attacks. So repeatedly that I kept asking if Bruce is OK. Yes Bruce, that is truly posted exactly as it is worded - no hidden agendas. But in viewing other boards, I now realize the hate and emotion is widespread. Another post asked if the Chinese have put something in our food (yes they have, but is that toxin relevant?).

Look folks. Like it or not, western world's most violent nation so condones violence that Virginia events resulted in what - a yawn. Nothing. No action. Forty some school yard massacres in the US when the entire world has seen maybe 10. Massacres so routine that Americans now do nothing - advocate nothing - to avert such massacres. SNAFU. As I posted elsewhere, we should start a pool for where the next massacre will occur. At least we do something.

British had no problem averting this same problem. Brits did step one and step two. Steps are posted repeatedly even in Banning Abortion and Guns in Free Palestine.

So what do xoxoxoBruce and Urbane Guerrilla post? Personal attacks even on The Economist (because it is a British publication and therefore must be evil?). IOW posts are now less based in logic.

OK, maybe they have a problem viewing from a strategic perspective - cannot see things in terms of the bigger picture. But why so many emotional attacks? No, it’s not just Duck Duck who is attacked personally for age, nationality, etc. Personal attacks are now widespread. Attitude change that coincides with the arrival of and number of posts from TheMercenary.

Yes - America's response to schoolyard massacres is a yawn. America's response to dead soldiers in "Mission Accomplished"? Attack Ted Koppel for honoring them. We don't even lower the American flag after a soldier dies. We did that during Nam. Acceptance of violence and the resulting increase in personal attacks is a predictable trend. Death and violence has become situation normal. Worse here are the number of posters who now use profanity - a classic symptom of mental illness or a decrease in intelligence. Included are personal attacks on one for age. Some posters can see if they are the target of this post. Did they post multiple personal attacks intentionally laced with profanity? Is that your post? Then you are cited as contributing to the problem. I am not politically correct. I am blunt and I am extremely honest. Blunt honest cites a benchmark: are you part of the problem?

Long ago I pointed specifically to lumberjim’s ‘bullying’ of "April"; a teenager who actually may have been posting for help. How many agreed with me? I don't know. But I now see the exact same 'bullying' posted repeatedly by numerous dwellers.

It's not a gun thread that is the problem. Listed was a logical response by Britain to eliminate their schoolyard massacres. Responses were chock full of profanity and personal attacks by an increasing numbers of posters - who now do it more often. One who says he talks that way needs to remember that The Cellar is not a whore house for your self gratification. We discuss logically here. Personal attacks laced in profanity are not useful, are not logical, and are not entertaining.

Again, did you find lumberjim’s bullying of April acceptable? Then that is part of the problem. We cannot blame it on melamine in the food; nor completely on another national problem. Somehow, personal attacks laced in profanity are now SNAFU. I counted maybe as many as 10 Cellar dwellers that are guilty in the past month. Some who apologized may be due an apology. I have never in 20 years seen so many personal attacks by so many and so frequently.

Profanity is not the problem. But it is a symptom of those who have taken to a ‘bullying’ and illogical attitudes. Eliminating the profanity is not called for. Eliminating an attitude based in emotion is called for.

Guns will always remain a contencious issue because so many will not even acknowledge that a problem exists. Another schooyard massacre? I'm betting the next massacre in Tennessee. How many want to see me with a four letter word and raise me their middle finger.

[Kingswood]

The second amendment does not confer an unconditional right to keep and bear arms:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

How many Americans who choose to exercise their constitutional right to keep and bear arms also choose to exercise their constitutional obligation to join a well regulated militia? Not everybody, I'm guessing.

When the 2nd amendment was drafted, there was no such thing as a modern police force in the United States, so such a provision makes sense given that the citizens had the responsibility of enforcing the law. This explains the first part: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State". Had the concept of a modern police force been invented some 20 to 40 years earlier, the 2nd amendment as we know it would probably not exist.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

Look folks. Like it or not, western world's most violent nation so condones violence that Virginia events resulted in what - a yawn. Nothing. No action.

And when tw, the original master of emotional posts and personal attacks was asked 2 simple questions;

What do you expect an individual to do in reaction to this shooting?
What are you doing besides accusing everyone else of doing nothing?

his response was true to form.

When I asked him these questions and Jinx seconded them, tw (Rush Limbawl) starts personal attacks, diversions, and flinging blame on everyone else, like a child caught in the cookie jar.

tw, fuck you, paper tiger.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Kingswood

The second amendment does not confer an unconditional right to keep and bear arms:

How many Americans who choose to exercise their constitutional right to keep and bear arms also choose to exercise their constitutional obligation to join a well regulated militia? Not everybody, I'm guessing.

When the 2nd amendment was drafted, there was no such thing as a modern police force in the United States, so such a provision makes sense given that the citizens had the responsibility of enforcing the law. This explains the first part: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State". Had the concept of a modern police force been invented some 20 to 40 years earlier, the 2nd amendment as we know it would probably not exist.

You're way off base. It had nothing to do with police or lack thereof. Crime wasn't an issue, after all, everyone was armed and the most violent John Waynes on the planet.

The fear of the people was oppressive governments they had escaped from and were determined not to suffer again. Adding the guarantee of the right to keep their guns was a necessary inclusion in the bill of rights to win the support of the people for this or any government. Without the Bill of Rights, all of them, the people wouldn't trust any government to rule them.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Cloud

Beer!

'tho beer and guns don't mix too well.

Nor beer and gun discussions.

I choose beer

[elSicomoro]

Time for more music...from the Dead Milkmen:

"Would I be amused
Would you be impressed
That I had the power
To put a hole into your chest?
When the kids are crying
And the welfare check's been spent
Would I rob a liquor store
To get some money for the rent?

If I had a gun

Would I start smoking Marlboros?
Would I stop smoking Kents?
Would I gain some new respect?
Would I gain some confidence?
Would I suddenly go crazy
And shoot my family?
And see myself years later
On some crime show on TV

If I had a gun

Would I wear it in a holster?
Would I keep it concealed?
Would I put it on the table
Every time that I'm misdealed?
When I hear a nearby gunshot
When I'm up at night alone
Would I feel a little safer
Here in my urban home?

If I had a gun"

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by monster

I choose beer

Me too, I'm having one right now!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

Like it or not, western world's most violent nation so condones violence that Virginia events resulted in what - a yawn. Nothing. No action. Forty some school yard massacres in the US when the entire world has seen maybe 10. Massacres so routine that Americans now do nothing - advocate nothing - to avert such massacres.

Come again?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2543277.stm

http://ezinearticles.com/?Americas-m...cord&id=531696

http://www.theinternetparty.org/comm...20040405000111

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Sep3.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_July...train_bombings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_...hostage_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Avi...s_405_massacre

[monster]

Originally Posted by sycamore

Time for more music...from the Dead Milkmen:

"Would I be amused"

There is something simple a lot of urban people just don't think of. We rural people just won't give them up.
If we are forced to, we will just make more and give them to our friends.
End of story.
We have reloading equipment, stockpiles of brass, lead and powder, milling equipment and plans for most of our favorite guns.
Within a week we would be armed.
Within two, our families.
Within a month, our friends.
Done.
Those of you who wish to just will not disarm us. You can't.
It is not possible to undo technology.
Then you will have no idea who is armed, and we will have no reason to restrict what we have, the type or firing rate.

[elSicomoro]

How's that underground bunker coming along, Rob?

We have a compound. Sold the bunker.
Not kidding.

[Spexxvet]

[cowhead]

rkzenrage, and xoxoxobruce have points there. and I for one agree, one with the reason for the second amendment and the other for being able to arm oneself against an oppressive government.(although it must be said, if the national guard didn't join up with your states movement.. it's a lost cause.. yeah I liked red-dawn and taps as much as the next 35 some-odd-year old.. however.. it is overall a losing battle, (or would be).. not that I wouldn't be willing to take on that cause. better to die for something you believe in than a life of oppression)