4/15/2002: The next generation, again - Page 2

Manitoadlet · 04-30-2002, 12:10 PM

Maybe it's just me, but I never realized that Junior Seau was that political...

Undertoad · 11-19-2002, 11:12 AM

This thread is 7 months old and there is news on it. The father there was sentenced to five months probation and 300 hours community service by a German court. His offense was "condoning criminal acts".

The full story

Although I think the guy is scum, I could not disagree more with the notion that he should face charges.

MaggieL · 11-19-2002, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undertoad
Although I think the guy is scum, I could not disagree more with the notion that he should face charges.

I completely agree with Tony's disagreement. This kind of government control of apparently peaceful speech (even if its support for terrorist violence is plain) is deplorable. There's all kinds of "hate speech" I find to be evil, but government censorship of speech is evil at a different, higher level.

Socialism *and* fascism, together again for the first time...

Nic Name · 11-19-2002, 11:38 AM

Perhaps it's not an issue of free speech vs. inciting hatred, but one of child welfare. There ought to be a law, if there isn't, against using children in such demonstrations in the best interests of the child.

He can tie mock bombs to himself, as a right to free expression.

Leus · 11-19-2002, 01:04 PM

Also, you should try to understand why Germany is so intolerant to any showing of hatred. I believe they even have explicit laws to forbid the Nazi salute...

henry fitch · 11-19-2002, 02:55 PM

Yeah, imagine being that girl a few years later, in high school say, and some classmate sees that picture on the 'net. This is not good for the girl.

I agree with the charges.

jaguar · 11-19-2002, 03:38 PM

Germany has very strong laws about these things, kinda understandable. They also have laws that keep thier intel services splintered so they can't form another gestapo unlike somewhere else that comes to mind *coughhomelandcoughsecuritycough*. Decry the draconian laws from Germanys to Malaysia's ISA all you want, your nation is no better, just more subtle.

wolf · 11-19-2002, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
your nation is no better, just more subtle.

I know that this probably won't do any good ... but you need to walk a couple miles in our sneakers before you make an offhand comment like that.

Tobiasly · 11-19-2002, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
I know that this probably won't do any good ... but you need to walk a couple miles in our sneakers before you make an offhand comment like that.

Correct on both counts.. U.S.-bashing is pretty much jaguar's favorite modus operendi here.

MaggieL · 11-19-2002, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leus
Also, you should try to understand why Germany is so intolerant to any showing of hatred. I believe they even have explicit laws to forbid the Nazi salute...

So all that's really changed is what they're intolerant of... :-)

I remeber a Second City skit (*way* back in the early days of Second City...when Alan Arkin was in it, which would be 1960's) which ended with a young German making a refernece to "ze vinal zolution to ze Nazi problem".

I'm *not* in favor of Nazism, or Jihadism, for that matter. But forbidding peaceful expression is just plain wrong. Yet so many socalists are ready to sign right up for it, as long as it suppresses speech *they* don't like. That is just so freaking dangerous.

I *understand* perfectly well why the Germans do it. They feel so guilty about Nazism that they're perfectly willing to embrace fascist principles to make sure it never happens again. *Understanding* that isn't the problem. Butif they'd been a little more careful about fascism the first time around, they wouldn't be flirting with it again now.

Jag, you can cough all you want about Homeland Security...and you're right that there's plenty of "Idiotarians of the Right" signing on with Ridge and Poindexter. But Australia is way ahead of us in outright censorship, with France and Germany not far behind (or perhaps a little ahead)...for all the most high-minded reasons, of course. (I won't ask you to walk a few miles in our sneakers until you've logged some more in your own, though; they're barely broken in. :-) )

And Nic...exactly what kinds of demonstrations do you think it should be illegal to bring your child to? Jihadist? Anti-Jihadist? Anti-US? Anti-Abortion? Pro-choice? Gun Prohibitionist? Second-Amendment Sisters?

Nic Name · 11-19-2002, 08:43 PM

All of the above. I was actually objecting to using the child in the demonstration rather than the binging to.

juju · 11-19-2002, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
I know that this probably won't do any good ... but you need to walk a couple miles in our sneakers before you make an offhand comment like that.

Why? You don't think a person can objectively judge a nation without being a member of it?

Leus · 11-20-2002, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
I know that this probably won't do any good ... but you need to walk a couple miles in our sneakers before you make an offhand comment like that.

Why? Happens that people who live in other parts of the world can have an opinion of our own about stuff like this. We have our own shoes, and we have walked other roads, and every one we walk have some intersection with some US road.

(That was my $0.1 metaphor of the day)

What I wanted to say in this unfortunated post was it's pretty difficult <b>not</b> to form an opinion about US political ways, no matter where in the world you live.

Nic Name · 11-20-2002, 11:08 AM

On the other hand, if you wear sneakers all the time you don't have to walk a few miles in sandals to form opinions about the politics of the middle east.

That's why sneakers are better than sandals.

Just Do It

11-19-2002, 03:38 PM	#22
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Germany has very strong laws about these things, kinda understandable. They also have laws that keep thier intel services splintered so they can't form another gestapo unlike somewhere else that comes to mind coughhomelandcoughsecuritycough. Decry the draconian laws from Germanys to Malaysia's ISA all you want, your nation is no better, just more subtle. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

04-30-2002, 12:10 PM	#16
Manitoadlet Person Who Has Posted Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 2	Maybe it's just me, but I never realized that Junior Seau was that political...

11-19-2002, 11:12 AM	#17
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	This thread is 7 months old and there is news on it. The father there was sentenced to five months probation and 300 hours community service by a German court. His offense was "condoning criminal acts". The full story Although I think the guy is scum, I could not disagree more with the notion that he should face charges.

11-19-2002, 11:38 AM	#19
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	Perhaps it's not an issue of free speech vs. inciting hatred, but one of child welfare. There ought to be a law, if there isn't, against using children in such demonstrations in the best interests of the child. He can tie mock bombs to himself, as a right to free expression.

11-19-2002, 01:04 PM	#20
Leus Abecedarian Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chile Posts: 179	Also, you should try to understand why Germany is so intolerant to any showing of hatred. I believe they even have explicit laws to forbid the Nazi salute...

11-19-2002, 02:55 PM	#21
henry fitch Dry Nurse Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23	Yeah, imagine being that girl a few years later, in high school say, and some classmate sees that picture on the 'net. This is not good for the girl. I agree with the charges.

11-19-2002, 08:43 PM	#26
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	All of the above. I was actually objecting to using the child in the demonstration rather than the binging to.

11-20-2002, 11:08 AM	#29
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	On the other hand, if you wear sneakers all the time you don't have to walk a few miles in sandals to form opinions about the politics of the middle east. That's why sneakers are better than sandals. Just Do It

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