HILLARY'S UGLY 'JOKE'

[classicman]

Hillary's a lifer
Barack doesn't have the power
Edwards is a weinie

the Republicans are mostly retreads
this blows chunks!

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Retreads, schmetreads. We're in a war -- started by other people, as some need to be reminded of periodically -- so vote for a war winner.

Hegemony, after all, is a lot more fun when you're the Hegemon. That way you can have hegemonized milk with your PNAC butter cookies.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Gravel scares me.

I think edwards is still the best candidate in the top-tier field for 'fresh and different'. He's much more pro-change than either of the other two democratic leaders. Hillary's too entrenched in the political world, and obama's the halfway point.
Hillary wants to keep the system mostly the same, but make it look different.
Obama wants to change the system but keep it intact, just tinker with it until it's better.
Edwards thinks the system's prettymuch FUBAR, and wants to completely rework it.

Isn't everybody is tired of his personal narrative already? "My Dad worked in a factory." How horrifying, I can't believe somebodies Dad worked in a factory in this day and age.

Obama might be ok.
PH45 has the list of qualified candidates (those who opposed invasion) and none of them has a shot. The media will paint them as having, too much socialism(K), too much capitalism(P), and well I'll have to check on Gravel...

[ZenGum]

I was going to raise these questions actually. I keep a vague eye on US politics, and I can't see any candidates who impress me as being particularly worthy. Are there any worth being interested in?

Clinton or Obama would be mildly interesting if only for the sake of having a woman or a black person as President ... but the novelty would wear off well before their four years were up.
Idea! Clinton/Obama ticket, pres. gets booted out after two years ... they can both do it! Better - Vote Rice! two for the price of one.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Griff

and well I'll have to check on Gravel...

Hes too insane.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

That's weird right off, when Piercehawkeye calls somebody too insane.

This Gravel hasn't said anything to draw my attention.

[Ibby]

Well if his campaign videos are any judge, he hasnt said anything. Ever.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Hmm; might explain it. Well, some other night.

[Torrere]

That's not true at all. Gravel has flat out stated that he has no hopes for winning the presidential nomination and that he is only campaigning for President so that he can get his message out.

Of course, this means that everyone can find some way that they strongly disagree with him and he has been pretty effectively marginalized and he's been excluded from some of the debates.

I know that Gravel favors:
* ending the drug war
* getting out of the oil wars in the Middle East
* oil independence "within 5 years"
* gay rights
* year round schooling???
* progressive sales tax???
* and some other stuff

He has his own health care plan, too, of course.

[piercehawkeye45]

Gravel does has some decent views, most I've heard are unrealistic, but his "insanity" comes from how he debates.

It was a joke.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

My goodness, that's the first I've heard of such a thing as a "progressive sales tax." Let us count the ways that's a bad idea... one, you really shouldn't abuse the rich just for being rich, which is what the thing seems to enshrine simply by definition. Two... (have at it, folks).

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Torrere

That's not true at all. Gravel has flat out stated that he has no hopes for winning the presidential nomination and that he is only campaigning for President so that he can get his message out.

Of course, this means that everyone can find some way that they strongly disagree with him and he has been pretty effectively marginalized and he's been excluded from some of the debates.

I know that Gravel favors:
* ending the drug war
* getting out of the oil wars in the Middle East
* oil independence "within 5 years"
* gay rights
* year round schooling???
* progressive sales tax???
* and some other stuff

He has his own health care plan, too, of course.

Well those first four have a fair bit going for them, (not to say that they're workable or have nothing going against them though) ... but ... progressive sales tax?? What??
How would that even work? Rich people have to pay more than poor people on the same item? Or expensive items are taxed at a higher rate than lower price items?
I don't have time to even start listing how unworkable either approach would be.
Torrere, can you tell me what the idea is here?

[Undertoad]

I tire of these egotists who run just to promote an agenda.

Even those who become President don't get to automatically implement an agenda. They are usually politically hamstrung; they are only a third of the government anyway. You can pretty much ignore which health care plan is being promoted by whom, eleven months before the election. The politics of it will change over and over again before anyone has a chance to suggest any change at all. Even in cases where the President has a Senate and House controlled by their same party, nothing is automatic.

People promoting an agenda get to ignore all that and just say "Well, if *I* was President..." Well shit, we all have said that, since we were little kids.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Lies, damn lies, and political campaign promises.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

How would that even work? Rich people have to pay more than poor people on the same item? Or expensive items are taxed at a higher rate than lower price items?

Expensive items will have a higher tax rate than cheaper items.

For example, if an item costs $10.00 it will have a tax rate of 5.00% making it $10.50 in total.

But if an item costs $10,000 it will have a tax rate of 10.00% making it $11,000 in total.