Words in the wrong context

[DanaC]

This is a little different, but the phrase 'try and ___' drives me nuts, and I see it all the time. It should be 'try to ___.' For example, "I'll try and call before I leave." Now that I've mentioned it, maybe it will bug you too.

'try and...' may be grammatically less correct than 'try to...', but it is in common usage in many spoken dialects of english. I use it myself.

[SteveDallas]

Originally Posted by DanaC

'try and...' may be grammatically less correct than 'try to...', but it is in common usage in many spoken dialects of english. I use it myself.

Well, there you go! If enough people say it, it becomes "common usage." Our kids very early on picked up the habit of using "done" without "with" (example: "I'm done my homework"). It drives my wife and me up the wall, but lots of people around here seem to do it. (Including, to my amused horror, my son's language arts teacher when we went in for our regularly scheduled conference with her.)

[Kingswood]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

At what point does a local peculiarity become a legitimate regional dialect? And when or how does this become dominant?
For example, of course the correct spelling of words like colour and flavour involve the letter "u" ( ) but our American friends had to save ink (something about rationing during the war of independence, I think) and left the "u" out, to the point that this is now the (statistically) prevalent form. How many people need to agree on a non-standard usage or spelling for it to become an "accepted" variant? And then the "standard" form?

The question on what spelling variants are included in the dictionary largely depends on the publishers of those dictionaries. These dictionary publishers tend to be conservative, so even a widespread misspelling would not generally make it into the dictionary.

For example, "embarrassed" is the dictionary-standard spelling. However, on the Web, it is not the most common spelling. The most common Web spelling is "embarassed" (one r, not two). Yet the dictionary makers would likely not include this most widespread spelling even though it outnumbers the correct spelling on the Web by about 2 to 1.

Other words take a long time to change their spellings. "Minuscule" is the correct spelling per dictionary, but it is slowly losing out to the widespread misspelling of "miniscule". How slowly? So far it's taken over a hundred years and "minuscule" is still the standard spelling.

"Through" is similarly entrenched against "thru". Even though "thru" was in acceptable use as a variant spelling when Johnson released the first edition of his dictionary in the 18th century, he chose to prefer the archaic "through" and that is what we have used ever since.

English spellings tend not to change because the spellings of English work a bit like this:
* The people use dictionaries to look up spellings
* Dictionaries record common usage
* Common usage comes from the people

This mechanism is similar to:
* Rock beats scissors
* Scissors beats paper
* Paper beats rock

[Juniper]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Oh yeah...silly me. I should have realized you don't type a real word when you're describing someone else's pronunciation errors.

There is actually a literary term for this. It is called "eye dialogue" or "creative respelling," and I am thinking of using it for my master's thesis, if I ever get that far.

A peeve of mine is saying "I could care less" when they really mean "I couldn't care less." If you could care less, that means you care a lot, right?

Then...there are those errors that you think about fondly, because someone you loved very much used to say them and though it irritated the snot out of you at the time, you'd do anything to hear it again....(sigh) My dad used to say this: "neither mind." (never mind)

[lumberjim]

supposably. go to the liberry, and look that word up.

[Juniper]

Ah yes, the liberry, my favorite fruit.

[Stress Puppy]

< nitpick > Though English is a 'Germanic' language, it's not a descendant of German. They both descend from the same origins, yes, but they evolved a lot due to separation, and then got further separated thanks to multiple invasions of what became England.

[DanaC]

A peeve of mine is saying "I could care less" when they really mean "I couldn't care less." If you could care less, that means you care a lot, right?

Also one of my pet peeves

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Ali - yes, I'm just kidding you

ZG - I agree about 'could of'

This is a little different, but the phrase 'try and ___' drives me nuts, and I see it all the time. It should be 'try to ___.' For example, "I'll try and call before I leave." Now that I've mentioned it, maybe it will bug you too.

That's one of my peeves too...try and..., I mean. Also, someone who says anyways.

I have my share of regional error speaking...but I'm a firm believer that popular usage doesn't make it right. I catch myself a lot.

My big thing lately is a certain, um...dialect (?) that uses the long e sound for i and and i sound for a long e. For example "He feeled the water glass for me, but I still fill nothing towards him romantically."

Ugh.

Oh, and then there's FASSA.

[DanaC]

I have my share of regional error speaking...but I'm a firm believer that popular usage doesn't make it right.

Nothing wrong with dialect forms. 'Standard' English is just the dialect which won out as the 'correct' version, refined through latinate grammar.

[Shawnee123]

At what point does it end. If I can convince everyone that "slapbuttosky" is another word for "spaghetti" will that be OK?

It's an ever-evolving language , to be sure. I'm a language purist without the knowledge a language purist should have. In other words, I know just enough to be dangerous.

[DanaC]

At what point does it end. If I can convince everyone that "slapbuttosky" is another word for "spaghetti" will that be OK?

lol. Highly unlikely. Very few new words or usages stick long term. The replacement of 'to' with 'and' is a particular kind of deviation from standard, but I can't recall the mechanism. There are a few similar ones that have a tendency to crop up in certain dialects.

[Shawnee123]

I'm also the worst when it comes to "fad" phrases. I was a TOTAL (joke intended) valley girl talking young lady in HS and college, and now I use internet based phrases and some young lingo, just because I pick up stuff like that easily. I probably sound stupid. hee heee

OMG, like, I am SO immature for my age.

Also, if I spent a week in England I can guarantee you the accent will creep into my speech. That's a desirable thing, imo.

[classicman]

I'll just throw this one out there -

"Lemme acks you - can I borrow your inkpen?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

My big thing lately is a certain, um...dialect (?) that uses the long e sound for i and and i sound for a long e.

I don't like that, but I use it for one word: "league". I say "ligg". How many teams are in this ligg? Do they play in the American or the National ligg? For some reason I find it enjoyable to say it that way.