Bush Commutes Sentences of Border Patrol Agents

[dmg1969]

OK. Well, now I understand your position. And I appreciate and respect you for it. I, however, disagree with it.

I also think immigrants should be allowed to enter and work in our country, but I expect them to do so legally. My maternal and paternal grandparents came from the Ukraine and Germany respectively. They did so legally by coming through Ellis Island...not sneeking across a border or on a boat that runs aground in the middle of the night.

I do not think that sneeking across the border and entering the country illegally should qualify someone to stay and/or work here. If I offer an apartment for rent and someone breaks into that apartment, should I still allow that person to rent from me? What does that say about his or her character?

If the government shouldn't have control over immigration and the borders, who should? Oh wait...you said, nobody...they should be open. Why not just give up our sovereignty altogether? Why not just merge with Mexico and Canada?

We have very different views on what it is to be a patriot, my friend. But that's OK...that's what being an American is all about!

[xoxoxoBruce]

But dmg, your views are so, so, so majority.

[dmg1969]

Yeah, I know...just call me crazy, Bruce.

And call me Dave.

[TheMercenary]

pass the salt.

[regular.joe]

Classic, I think experience is the best teacher. Have fun with the debate/discussion.

Merc do you like the regular salt or the herbal stuff?

[Radar]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

OK. Well, now I understand your position. And I appreciate and respect you for it. I, however, disagree with it.

I also think immigrants should be allowed to enter and work in our country, but I expect them to do so legally. My maternal and paternal grandparents came from the Ukraine and Germany respectively. They did so legally by coming through Ellis Island...not sneeking across a border or on a boat that runs aground in the middle of the night.

I do not think that sneeking across the border and entering the country illegally should qualify someone to stay and/or work here. If I offer an apartment for rent and someone breaks into that apartment, should I still allow that person to rent from me? What does that say about his or her character?

If the government shouldn't have control over immigration and the borders, who should? Oh wait...you said, nobody...they should be open. Why not just give up our sovereignty altogether? Why not just merge with Mexico and Canada?

We have very different views on what it is to be a patriot, my friend. But that's OK...that's what being an American is all about!

I also don't like the idea of people sneaking across the border. My family came to America before there was a processing center at Ellis island. They simply showed up and looked for work, and America was a better place for it.

When immigrants were processed at Ellis island, they simply showed up, took a physical, signed their name and they were legal. If the process were still that simple, we wouldn't have to worry about people sneaking in. They would prefer to walk in the front door, than crawl through the back door.

I'm not saying that the government can't have power over immigration. I'm saying it does not currently have that power. In order for the government to have this power, the U.S. Constitution would have to be amended. As it currently stands, states do have the legal power to regulate immigration, but the federal government does not.

Open immigration does nothing to reduce or increase our national sovereignty. Nor does it do anything to reduce or increase our national security. Peaceful immigrants are not an invasion and are not a threat.

I, like our founders, know that our strength is in our diversity and I welcome immigrants from all nations to America to become part of our melting pot. America is a nation built entirely by immigrants and the offspring of those immigrants. This is the beauty of America. I can go to China, Italy, or Germany but I can't become Chinese, Italian, or German. But anyone from China, Italy, or Germany can come to America and be just as American as anyone born here. In fact in many cases, they are MORE American because they don't take citizenship for granted. There are people in this world who would run through a hail of bullets to experience the kind of freedom and opportunity we have in America.

By allowing a free flow of immigrants into America, we ensure that we have a flow of fresh ideas and new approaches to our problems. In addition to immigrants not taking our freedoms for granted, they also tend to work harder than those who have been here longer and become soft.

Historically even going back to the founding of this country, there have always been alarmists who say that immigrants won't "assimilate" or "learn the language" even though America has never had an official language. History has proven them all to be wrong. Each new wave of immigrants has brought with them their home culture and that culture has become part of the melting pot. Each of them has eventually "assimilated" into the American culture.

A Mexican immigrant who sneaks across the border at night is no better or worse than German or Ukrainian immigrants who went to Ellis island. Both seek a better life and more opportunity for themselves and their offspring. The fact that one of them followed an unconstitutional procedure and the other didn't is irrelevant.

If the people of America want to amend the Constitution to have powers over immigration, then so be it. I just don't want our government to violate the Constitution or ignore it, and I don't appreciate people being falsely labeled as "illegal" immigrants when they have not violated any legitimate or Constitutional laws.

[Perry Winkle]

Amen.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by regular.joe

Classic, I think experience is the best teacher. Have fun with the debate/discussion.

Merc do you like the regular salt or the herbal stuff?

Regular, but I hear that Old Bay Seasoning on it is very good too.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Do try it. Or Mrs. Dash Popcorn Blend, which is roughly the same idea.

And try Old Bay over butter on corn on the cob.

Wanna custom build your seasoned salt? Drop the herbs of your choice into a coffee grinder. Either powder the herbs and pour them out (reserving these) and then run a good fistful of coarse salt or kosher salt through the grinder and use the resulting herbed salt, or taste test and see if you need to put more herbs back in there for the desired flavor. When you're happy, store tightly covered.

[dmg1969]

Well, Radar, we will have to agree to disagree. I would counter some items in your last post, but going back and fourth isn't going to change your mind or mine. I stated my opinion and you stated yours and we'll leave it at that. Good debate though.

[tw]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

In an earlier high-profile official act of forgiveness, Bush saved Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, from serving prison time in the case of the 2003 leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity. Libby was convicted of perjury and obstructing justice. Bush could still grant him a full pardon, although Libby has not applied for one.

Libby was top of my list for full pardon. After all, he was Cheney’s man. Have been too busy to see the list. Is Libby not on the list for full pardon? If true, that would completely surprise me.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by dmg1969

Well, Radar, we will have to agree to disagree. I would counter some items in your last post, but going back and fourth isn't going to change your mind or mine. I stated my opinion and you stated yours and we'll leave it at that. Good debate though.

For 18 posts, you already have his number. Well done and welcome.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Is Libby not on the list for full pardon? If true, that would completely surprise me.

Surprise! nope still not there.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I think Bush refused the pardon to thumb his nose at Cheney.

[dmg1969]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

For 18 posts, you already have his number. Well done and welcome.

Thanks, Merc.

I may totally disagree with someone, but value their opinion and like to debate them.

I've been lurking for months now and just starting to post. Thanks for the welcome.