WI Recall

[classicman]

No prob Dana. I just found the statement funny. Especially from a person of your experience and intelligence. A comedy show explained a pretty detailed political situation to your understanding - says a lot.

[glatt]

I'm sick of the divisive politics. I would hope that after narrowly winning a recall election, the governor would learn some humility and try not to utterly destroy his political opposition. It would be nice if he would take this as an opportunity to learn to look for common ground with the opposition so that the state of Wisconsin can go forward in unity. I fully expect him to consider this a mandate and he will redouble efforts to crush and destroy his political rivals.

I'm really glad I don't live in Wisconsin, but in many ways, this is a microcosm of the USA as a whole. Moderates like Olympia Snowe are rapidly going extinct.

Our own representative has been phoning it in for the last decade and should really be replaced. There's a primary next week, and I can vote for a new young guy to replace him on the ticket. At first I was all excited about that, but the young guy sells himself as a "progressive warrior." He brags about how he's going to fight the Republicans ruthlessly. www.progressivewarrior.com I don't want that.

[classicman]

Although Walker won, the D's taking that last senate seat should pretty much hamper and "crushing or destroying."
Nothing is going to get rubber-stamped anymore. No one really has the power.
Mostly, they'll just get a lot of bickering and blaming back-and-forth about who is blocking what and and the end result with be that not much, if anything gets done. Just what we need - more inaction at the constituents expense :/

[glatt]

You've been following it more closely than me.

Gridlock is good, when the alternative is one side screwing the other.

[DanaC]

@ Ibs, ok, yes, I was perhaps a touch glib there.

But, much as I sympathise with the left generally and the embattled unions in particular, they really shot themselves in the foot with this, it seems.

I'm uncomfortable about the whole recall system. Honestly, I think you should pretty much have to do something illegal. Or if unpopularity is the measure it needs to be a lot more robust. The number of people supporting a recall should be much higher imo. It is far too open to games.

Also, they really should have waited. They totally mistimed it. It takes longer for people to lose patience with an incumbent after an election.

[Happy Monkey]

Perhaps, but on the whole, the various recalls worked - without the state senate, Walker can no longer run roughshod over the unions. The damage done is done, but further damage will be opposed.

[classicman]

From what I know, its not definite yet. I think the R's are gonna call for a recount or whatever.
That last seat was lost by a pretty small margin. The final vote totals were:

Lehman D: 36,255
Wanggaard R: 35,476

This would switch control of the State Senate to the D's. Four state senators were under recall, and Wanggaard was the only one to not hang on to his seat.
Still, this is only until November as 16 seats in the Senate are up for re-election as well as all 99 in the Assembly.

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by DanaC

@ Ibs, ok, yes, I was perhaps a touch glib there.

But, much as I sympathise with the left generally and the embattled unions in particular, they really shot themselves in the foot with this, it seems.

I'm uncomfortable about the whole recall system. Honestly, I think you should pretty much have to do something illegal. Or if unpopularity is the measure it needs to be a lot more robust. The number of people supporting a recall should be much higher imo. It is far too open to games.

Also, they really should have waited. They totally mistimed it. It takes longer for people to lose patience with an incumbent after an election.

At the same time, we look at you crazy parliamentary democracies and go, whaddaya mean the whoever can dissolve the thingie whenever he pleases, whaddaya mean vote of no confidence. I kinda see this as a similar structure.

[DanaC]

Yeh, I wasn't commenting on 'The American Electoral System'. It was a wider point about recalls. Which we also have at local government level and which various people are proposing should be brought in at national level.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Perhaps, but on the whole, the various recalls worked - without the state senate, Walker can no longer run roughshod over the unions. The damage done is done, but further damage will be opposed.

Good point.

[tw]

Recalls cost little. That was not the shocking discovery in WI. Today, rich extremists on all sides now spend money far in excess of what was spent on general elections. Because purchasing politicians was made legal by the Supreme Court. This is the monstrosity that Sen John McCain warned everybody of. And it will only get worse.

Very little money was spent on the recall. Massive sums were spent filling the airwaves with emotional shrill and lies. Because that is how governments are bought and sold.

A second problem also exists. The average American now has a reduced standard of living as we currently pay for Mission Accomplished, the protecting of bin Laden, welfare to big pharma, and other boondoggles. Organizations that have contracts based upon last year's standards of living are under attack. The numbers have been posted repeatedly comparing incomes of under 35 year olds in 1992 with those a decade later. In Wall Street Protests .

Economics is now punishing all Americans for foolishly loving military expeditions for no purpose and for 10 years. For listening to emotional shrills rather than think logically. These same confrontations between Americans occurred in the late 1970s because Nixon (another scumbag president) also spent money in 1968-1970 on a war that also had no purpose. (IOW for the greater glory of Nixon.)

We must now attack one another rather than address the only reasons for a reduced American standard of living. Wisconsin is simply another example of what must happen. And how things will only get worse.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by glatt

Gridlock is good, when the alternative is one side screwing the other.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

The damage done is done, but further damage will be opposed.

Pure fantasy. Calif of all places just voted to turn back the amount of money they give the unions in bennies. It is a reality of our near future and long over due. The veil has been lifted.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Pure fantasy. Calif of all places just voted to turn back the amount of money they give the unions in bennies. It is a reality of our near future and long over due. The veil has been lifted.

How would you feel about turning back the amount of money promised to other public employees in bennies? Do you think that's long over due too?

Here's a hint. It's a trick question. I am thinking about retired military service members' pensions and benefits. They were public employees once too. Your thoughts?

[xoxoxoBruce]

The “Overpaid Union Workers” boondoggle is based on another boondoggle - “Americans are middle class.” Seriously, talk to anyone. Almost everyone in America believes they are “middle class.” From trailer parks all the way to summer homes in Gulf Shores, they’re all “middle class,” if you ask them. This is because they don’t want the “shame” of being poor, but they also don’t want the “elitism” of being rich.

The truth is, the majority of Americans are not middle-class. Most Americans are poor. Maybe not impoverished, but poor. But so long as they think of themselves as being middle-class, suddenly those union people, oh boy, they’re living life on a luxury cruise, aren’t they?

It’s one lie, built on top of another. We have to knock down the underlying lie; as this graphic is trying to do. The trick is to expose that most Americans are NOT well-off or living comfortably.

And if they are “well off”, see how leveraged they are. Subtract their debt [borrowed money, student loans, mortgage, credit cards] from their assets and there is a lot of NEGATIVE NET WORTH out there.

The middle class needs to remember the pizza analogy:


Three guys order a ten slice pizza. The first guy opens the box, takes nine slices, and then says to one of the two remaining guys “watch out for that union asshole, he’s trying to steal YOUR slice.”

link

This is not the graphic refered to above.