I know this isn't Oprah but...

[Lady Sidhe]

"I don't think she has the qualities he deserves, nowhere near. She has very cleverly manipulated him and he cannot see it."


Seems to me that he doesn't have the qualities YOU deserve, and that he's manipulated you BOTH.

He may make you happy in that you two get along so well, but it seems to me that he was taking advantage of you when the other girl left. No offense to the guys out there, but men are very good at pretending to be who they aren't just to get laid. If he really DID care for you, he wouldn't be sleeping with her right now. Sounds to me like he just wants sex, regardless of who it's with.

You should consider yourself worth more than that. Doesn't seem to me that he deserves what YOU have to offer.


Regardless, though, I wish you luck, and I'll have my fingers crossed that things work out well for you.


Sidhe

[glatt]

I agree with your post 100%, Sidhe. And this I think is the crucial bit:

Originally posted by Lady Sidhe
If he really DID care for you, he wouldn't be sleeping with her right now. Sounds to me like he just wants sex, regardless of who it's with.

He has made his choice painfully clear. It seems obvious to me.

Catwoman, I think we have all been in your shoes. I know I have. It sucks. I feel for you. I'm skeptical that you can remain friends with him, even if you want to. Your emotions are too strong. I know I couldn't.

By all means, I think you should talk to him. Tell him everything. It will clear the air, and you will see where you stand. You will feel better, and it may actually help the situation. At a minimum, the two of them may be more discreet in the future. At least they will be if they were ever your friends.

Or you may find out that it wasn't meant to be. You'll probably need to move out then. It would be too painful to stay.

Whatever happens, I wish you the best.

[xoxoxoBruce]

But given that I cannot impact the actual situation (ie cannot alter other peoples feelings) the only thing I can change is myself and that is what I guess I am looking for help with.

You can change their understanding of how you feel. Don't assume they know your feelings. Good luck, Cat.

[Catwoman]

Thanks for your support guys, Lady S you have a very good point, although it was me who initiated the 'affair' when she left, he didn't even want to at first, for the exact reason that he thought (quite accurately) it would make things awkward and could affect our friendship. I thought a) I could deal with it if it didn't work out (wrong!) and b) I had a sneaky suspicion it would work out (wrong again!) Yes I am viewing everything through very tinted glasses. I am always quick to accuse people who I think are making judgements based on emotions which only distort an issue that is otherwise pretty clear cut. Not so easy when it's me who's living in the blur.

Anyway, there has been an update: he has told me he doesn't want to sleep with her anymore. He says this is nothing to do with me, but the fact that she's getting too clingy and invasive. I doubt this resolution will last, but that's how it stands right now. And he has been avoiding her, quite literally. Makes things slightly easier for now anyway. Time I think to get in touch with my real feelings, I'm still not going to do anything with him till I see the final outcome of the other situation. And in the meantime I'll go on dates with other guys, not going to let his selfishness stop me enjoying myself, and it will come through in the end if he really cares.

Glatt talking to him now about a relationship doesn't seem a good idea when he's getting stressed about girl B wanting one. Don't you think I should leave it for now until his position becomes clearer?

Otherwise the choc ice cream (preferably Haagen Dazs Belgian Chocolate or Ben & Jerry's Phish Food) sounds like a good a plan as any wolf.

Thanks again for your messages of encouragement

[glatt]

Originally posted by Catwoman
Glatt talking to him now about a relationship doesn't seem a good idea when he's getting stressed about girl B wanting one. Don't you think I should leave it for now until his position becomes clearer?

You sound like you have things on the right track.

Good luck.

[Lady Sidhe]

[Catwoman]

Oh dear.

"I'm still not going to do anything with him till I see the final outcome of the other situation. And in the meantime I'll go on dates with other guys, not going to let his selfishness stop me enjoying myself, and it will come through in the end if he really cares."

It did. He doesn't. And I didn't do any of the above.

Carried on like the stupid weak-willed woman I am. We slept together all the time. Girl B is pretty much out of the equation so I figured I was safe. Got even more involved. Had the best sex EVER. It was gentle, loving, passionate sex. Lots of kissing. He initiated it as much as I did, if not more. We spent many evenings where people assumed we were boyfriend and girlfriend, and he was happy to go along with this, in public. We've been on weekends away, magical weekends talking about life love and everything. I felt something was changing, I was so happy.

Last night he slept with someone else. Went home with her. Girl he met in a bar. Met her while I was there. I was talking to a guy for most of the evening; he said he noticed. I saw him looking. Part of me wants to think he did it in retaliation because he was jealous, but he has told me he never gets jealous, and I think I am making myself more important in his head than I really am. She wasn't even that attractive, and maybe ten years older than him. I went home before him even though he asked if I wanted to stay for a drink. I couldn't bear to watch them flirting so I drove home, drunk, swerving everywhere and trying not to cry. Didn't sleep last night. My eyes are sore.

I don't know what to do. Do I act as if nothing has happened, because at the end of the day, he never promised me anything. Technically, he's done nothing wrong. Or should I tell him how I feel: rejected, betrayed, and very hurt. And then wait for him to say 'I never promised you anything'. That's the only possible outcome. How could I be so stupid?

[Yelof]

I am very sorry for the situation you are in, being in love with someone is like being hooked on drugs. When your dealer takes you stash from you you suffer, you go live in that black hole.

Sex and Friends don't mix, get out of there, your friendship with him (and possibly her) died the minute you slept with him.

Some of the worst moments in my life were when I decided that I could be still friends with a girlfriend who had cheated on me. I was fooling myself, under the modern human still beats a primative heart, I was still in love with her and I was really cutting myself up with a knife to remain in her presence.

She had been my best friend, if I hadn't been a fool kid I would never of slept with her and we might still be friends. Testosterone does funny things to you.

I stubbled over her email address the other day and at times I am tempted to email her just to find out what has happened in her life, but another part of me knows that is not a good idea and that way grief lies.

[Catwoman]

Originally posted by Yelof
Sex and Friends don't mix, get out of there, your friendship with him (and possibly her) died the minute you slept with him.

Do you really think that's true? Do you think I've lost everything already? If so there's no point me hanging on... I just keep thinking, give it time, he'll come round, he'll see, we'll make it together. Hope. So futile. I know how stupid I sound.

I can't accept grief. I know it's self-destructive, but continuing the situation means I do not have to accept the loss. Denial is so powerful. It would feel like giving up if I left, like I'd missed the most important opportunity in my life. Something inside me STILL thinks there is a chance he cares. What is wrong with me, why can't I see it for what it is? That glimmer of hope... when giving advice to someone else I would always say 'don't give up hope, it's the most important thing we have'. But when a situation is just so hopeless? Is there any point having hope. It's like I don't want to stop my feelings for him in case he changes his mind, and then it would be too late.

Your best friend... even if you had never slept with her, you would still have those unresolved feelings for her. Wouldn't that have been equally as destructive? I think the minute feelings get involved, not sex, is when all the problems start.

What a mess. Should I tell him how I feel?

[jaguar]

It's not true, at least not in my experience or opinion, give things time. I have two very close female friends, one an ex one not who I've slept with, we wouldn't be as closer friends now if that had not happened both were a long time ago now but it means there no sexual tension there now, just closeness.

That said it sounds like he's taken advantage of the situation or is seriously, seriously confused. There could be some very odd motives behind what he did.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by Catwoman


What a mess. Should I tell him how I feel?

Some nameless dude that lives with two chicks:

" I'm really confused. I live with two women, and while I have had sex with both of them, I am starting to have real feelings for one. The other one went away for a long vacation, and I started doing it with the cute one. then the first one came back, and i was a little confused. a bit of time went by, and i realized that i liked the second one better, but didn't want to create a rift in our house. it's such a touchy thing. if i get too friendly with the second one, the first will feel excluded, so i try to keep things 'friendly' and the cute one and i tell each other that we're just friends that like to have sex with each other. every time i think we're getting serious, she does something like flirting with a guy at a bar in front of me. I have to interpret this to mean that she really DOES just want to be friends that fuck (ftf). so i wind up apeing her, and picking up some slut to show her that i'm cool with ftf, too. but i cant help feeling that something is slipping away, and im afraid that girl 2 doesnt really care.......should i just tell her how i feel? or should i guard my pride in fear that she will reject any offer of a more normal relationship...... what to do?"

edit.....various spelling and typos

[Catwoman]

Originally posted by jaguar
That said it sounds like he's taken advantage of the situation or is seriously, seriously confused. There could be some very odd motives behind what he did.

I just popped home for lunch and he was there. I decided to be honest. I told him I felt hurt. He said I had no reason to be. I said I knew, you never promised anything. I asked him why he did it. He mentioned curiosity, practice, ego. And then he said it was to see my reaction. He said he wants to prevent us getting closer because he values our friendship so much that he doesn't want to see it destroyed if we have a relationship. He thinks we would get too involved if he didn't do something like this, that he didn't want to hurt me but thought it was better to set a precedent, so he wouldn't mislead me, because he doesn't want to get hurt again. His last relationship ended the same time as mine, about 2 years ago. We were both in love with our partners and the break ups were very painful. I am only recently over it, him likewise. Both still sore. So it was a defense mechanism. Not to make me jealous, not to prove a point, just to kill the feelings.

Only they haven't died. I told him if ever there were two people who could make it work it was us, because we understand that in a relationship it is the sureness, the promises, that set you up for pain, and that if we could understand that we could act upon it and our relationship would never be labelled or structured or based on insecurity. I hope he will think about this. I don't know what will happen. At least now we have been honest with each other.

I know though, no matter what happens, I will always want to be friends. You just can't throw away a connection like that.

[Catwoman]

Occasional wisdom in action

Thanks lj that helps a lot.

[lumberjim]

well, it looks like you have done the right thing, cat. i'm quite proud of you. that was brave of you to finally tell him what you were thinking. at least the topic has been broached. hopefully the conversation you two had will rattle around in his head and come up to the surface with a positive outcome.....

i do not envy your situation, but at the same time, i do. the torture of new love can be sweet as well as painful. sometimes simultaeneously. good luck. i hope he comes around for you. if you were feeling really brave, you could go with my original advice and show him this thread........ If he has any chivalry at all, he'll melt before your eyes as he reads it.

[Catwoman]

You're very sweet. I think I'd like to keep the Cellar to myself for now though. It's like ready-made intelligent, thoughtful friends at the click of a finger! (or mouse)



wanted to add the big grin and say thanks again