Women and Self Esteem

[perth]

We should start a club.

[wolf]

Reminds me of a bit of Star Trek Wisdom ...

Having is not so fine a thing as wanting.

Consider the possibility of the females divorcing in haste and repenting in leisure ... and the smug satisfaction that you may gather by saying "no, I don't need you back."

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by wolf


Consider the possibility of the females divorcing in haste and repenting in leisure ... and the smug satisfaction that you may gather by saying "no, I don't need you back."

Hell no, they're off tormenting some other poor schmuck.:p

[Lady Sidhe]

Originally posted by Kitsune

quote:So what is with all the battered women who always end up in abusive relationships and seem to need it? The "oh he beats me up now and then but he still loves me" kind? Those people are way, way too far gone.

Originally posted by Beestie

quote:That's a good question and I'm not really expert enough to say. My opionion is that women (and men) who stay in abusive relationships do so because the abuse is inextricably intertwined with the emotion of love...


Ok, I'm going to put my two cents in. First, understand that I'm not looking for sympathy or whatever, just illustrating my own opinion.

The very first relationship I was in (long-term) was abusive. This guy was psycho, literally, and I found out later that he tried to kill his ex-wife by stomping on her. Anyway, these guys don't start OUT abusive. They start out charming, and the abuse is gradual; a little here, a little more there, until you're not only completely isolated from anyone who can help, but you're so terrified that you're walking on eggshells all the time. When someone tells you that if you leave, they'll find you and kill you, you're at the point where you believe them, especially if you've gone to the cops (as I did) twice, and nothing was done. This guy put me in the hospital twice before I could get away from him for good. He had me followed and everything.

There are various reasons why women don't leave abusive relationships. For some, it IS because they "love" they guy; for others, it's because they aren't allowed to have jobs, so they have no money; maybe they aren't allowed access to the car; maybe they have kids and they're frightened for them; and maybe, like me, they're trying to figure out a way to escape without getting killed. Statistics show that most women who get killed by abusive men get killed AFTER they leave.

Anyway, while I agree with Beestie that some women, because of their early lives, have intertwined abuse and love, that isn't always the case.

AND, before I met this guy, I had great self-esteem. Afterwards, I think I blocked most of it out--the emotions, anyway, because while I can remember what happened, there are absolutely NO emotions associated with it, except a vague hatred of him. I don't have a fear of men, or anything like that. It seems as if, aside from the vague hatred, It really didn't affect me in any other way except that I can spot those bastards a mile away.


Sidhe

I think Beestie made a very nice analysis of the problem. As small children we learn what it means to be loved from our parents. Our parents are flawed human being themselves, and unfortunately, some parents are out-right physically or emotionally abusive. As adults we may intellectually realize that some of the things that happened in our childhood were not the best, but when we meet somebody who embodies these traits, we are drawn like a moth to the flame. It "feels like love" because that is what has become imprinted in our emotional templates, and it can be very hard to overcome.

Picking abusive, inappropriate partners is not just something women do either. A couple of nights ago I had a long talk with a male friend of mine who is 14 years younger than me. I have known this guy for quite a while now and I've watched him go from one awful relationship to the next. One woman he fell madly in love with had an extreme problem with anger, another was a narcissist who couldn't love anybody, including herself. A third was a pathological liar who made my every instinctual alarm bell go off the moment I met her. He thought she was wonderful until sad experience proved him wrong. "What am I going to do?" he asked me. I want a woman I can love and who will be my closest friend. I'd like to have a son of my own. Every relationship I've ever had has blown up in my face. I think I'm a decent person, so why does this keep happening to me?"

I told him that I thought his "radar" was broken. He actually flinched when I said that and said sadly, "You know, I think you're right." This man came from a terrible childhood. His mother died when he was three and he grew up going back and forth between foster homes and the home of his drunken father and abusive grandfather.

There are too many tragic stories like his among men and women both.

[ladysycamore]

While my self esteem wasn't "horrible", it pretty much kept me from dating until I met Sycamore. (and yes, I just put myself out there). I knew that I couldn't possibly be in a relationship while my esteem was where it was, so I chose to not date or get tangled up in any sort of relationship until I could "get right" with myself. I figured that it wasn't worth the potential heartache and I had seen plenty of my female friends going through bad situations because of their self esteem issues. Quite honestly, I wanted to get it right the first time.

[jaguar]

So in short, we're all fuckups who wouldn't know a good thing if she asked us to dinner? Wonderful. Looks like potential for two clubs here.

[perth]

And I think that's how it *should* be done, and why I haven't bothered to seek a relationship right now. I'm not sure I can even be true to myself right now, let alone a romantic interest. As painful as it can be, being alone is, at least in my case, very therapeutic. I look forward to being ready to date again, but I want to make sure I'm doing it because I know I can succeed in it, not because I just want it.

Edit: fixed another damned spelling error Jag inadvertently pointed out.

[jaguar]

As painful as it can be, being alone is, at least in my case, very threapeutic.

Damn straight.

[warch]

In America, all girls wrestle with their worth being charted by their looks. Just as boys are charted by their strength/ athletic prowess. Some get over it, some dont. Some will make amazing concessions. Another part of this is somehow tangled up with dominance and women as prey.

Originally posted by jaguar
So in short, we're all fuckups who wouldn't know a good thing if she asked us to dinner? Wonderful. Looks like potential for two clubs here.

Not at all, Jag. Its a continium of sorts or like a graph with the shape of that dreaded bell curve that every college student knows. On one end of the spectrum are people raised in a healthy environment by two very healthy, highly functional parents (alas, a relative minority). On the opposite end are people who were raised in highly abusive situations, often with one or even both parents absent. These people are also in the minority (although its numbers seem to be growing, unfortunately). The rest of us fall somewhere in the middle, raised by parents who made some mistakes, but did the best they could under whatever the circumstances were. This constitutes the majority of both sexes. We may have our difficulties, but with patience and perserverance we can work through them. There is no reason to have two clubs unless you want to create them.

[jaguar]

The second club was for UT and the 'left for someone better' association over there =)

Not sure exactly where I'd sit on the bell curve but put it this way, I think i'll stick to two mutually exclusive catagories, good friends and one night stands.

[Kitsune]

This conversation spilled over into the office and I'll be damned if I didn't paint myself into a corner by not thinking before I spoke.

"So many girls I know lack so much self esteem. I want a girl that thinks good of herself! One that will stand up for herself! One with balls!"

"Uh, I think that'd make them a guy."

Dammit.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Not at all Kit, girls can have balls, testes will make them male.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally posted by jaguar
The second club was for UT and the 'left for someone better' association over there =)

That would be the GAG or grass is always greener club.