Is weed consumption prevalent in PA, or what? - Page 2

tw · 10-12-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

First off, maintenance programs are nowhere near as successful as you seem to believe. Whether you provide maintenance doses of heroin itself or of the best-known heroin analog, methadone, you've still got an addiction. An addiction, incidentally, to a substance that requires higher and higher doses to get the same level of satisfaction from over time.

Therefore cigarette addicts must consume more cigarettes every year to get the same level of satisfaction?

That was the point of those successful programs in Netherlands and Swizterland. Heroine is an addiction that most will never be cured of. So heroin maintenance using a fixed, small dose, had a near 100% success rate. Another ignored point: with right wing George Jr extremists in power, we could never even perform such clinical experiments. Political rhetoric again being more important than science. Right wing rhetoric says if rehabilitation does not work the first time, then rehabilitiation does not work - which is why we spend many times more money on enforcement and punishment rather than on rehab. Your comments?

To get back on point - are you saying rehabilitation only works a first time or are you saying many must go through rehab as much as three or more times? Clearly rehab does not work because even a drug rehab counsellor fell off the wagon? Or are there real world politicans that want to deal with the fact that many will require multiple episodes of rehab?

Are you saying methadone is more successful because it replaces one addiction with another? Are you saying that crack cocaine addicts 10 out of ten and that heroin only addicts 9 out of ten?

Another fact we know even from the cigarette addiction companies - the earlier a person becomes addicted, then the more addicted they are for life. Cigarette drug pushers had a program to addict 8 year olds. How? They were test marketing nicotene laced candies when the program was uncovered by Hubert Humphrey's Jr, AG for MN. Cigarette drug companies had a program to addict more customers for life because younger addicts are the most problematic.

Yes a heroine addicted 15 year old will always be a problematic case based upon the history of addiction. The younger the addict, then the more likely that addict will 'fall off the wagon'.

tw · 10-15-2004, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

First off, maintenance programs are nowhere near as successful as you seem to believe. Whether you provide maintenance doses of heroin itself or of the best-known heroin analog, methadone, you've still got an addiction. An addiction, incidentally, to a substance that requires higher and higher doses to get the same level of satisfaction from over time.

Therefore cigarette addicts must consume more cigarettes every year to get the same level of satisfaction?

Trilby · 10-08-2004, 02:24 PM

drugs are neither evil nor good. They just are what they are. The most destructive drug is alcohol and it's perfectly legal to buy and use that-providing you are of legal age.

Griff · 10-08-2004, 04:37 PM

Is weed consumption prevalent in PA, or what?

um... duh

DanaC · 10-08-2004, 06:25 PM

Dont know about PA, but back in Bolton in the North of England my Ex was once offered a joint during his driving lesson by his driving instructor.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-08-2004, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Later that day, state agents with a warrant searched his desk and found drugs and drug paraphernalia.

There's always a good apple in every barrel.

DanaC · 10-08-2004, 07:23 PM

Quote:

There's always a good apple in every barrel.

very funny

footfootfoot · 10-09-2004, 11:15 PM

how many bundles in a peck?

DanaC · 10-10-2004, 11:12 AM

Thanks for sharing that with us Jane. I have a couple of friends who have had to make recourse to methadone programmes in recent years. Getting off an addictive substance is never easy, regardless of which method is used. I have a great deal of admiration for those who do it. Indeed I have admiration for those that try as well. Hell, quitting tobacco is hard enough to give me pause.

wolf · 10-10-2004, 12:20 PM

Replacing an addiction with another, less fun addiction, particularly one that still allows you to continue use of the addictive substance you're trying to get off of in the first place never made any real sense to me.

jane_says · 10-10-2004, 09:18 PM

On further reflection, this now seems like something I shouldn't have brought up even on anonymous message board. Even so, here we are.

Wolf, for me the methadone was my favorite. Even before I had my own script I would do it if I could get it. It wasn't less fun to me - it was more fun. It felt more like smack than anything else, and it kept me from getting sick for a day and a half. One of the main reasons I wanted to go on the methadone was that with my own script, it was certainly cheaper than the 300-400 mg. of pain pills I was taking.

I hear you about replacing one addiction with another. Methadone can be extremely dangerous. I know several people who have ODed on it, and several who have died. But for many people, it has been a lifesaver. It is possible to start taking it and never stop. I was scared of that happening to me. I knew if I wanted to take it indefinitely, there was no reason why I couldn't. That's what prompted me to wean myself off it. But I know that without it I'd not be where I am today.

wolf · 10-10-2004, 09:50 PM

You may have stopped using, but you didn't stop behaving like a junkie. You were getting meds either illegally (from friends who got them also) or from a doctor who was writing script under false pretenses ... primary/family care docs can write for methadone for pain under some circumstances, but aren't licensed for detox. In AA such folks are called "dry drunks." I don't know what the NA equivalent terminology would be.

All that being said, I hope your life is now better, and you remain stable and sober.

My hospital isn't licensed for methadone, but can get it under special circumstances from a local clinic, but the patient has to already be registered with that clinic in order to receive the doses.

jane_says · 10-10-2004, 10:19 PM

I resent you calling what I did to get off opiates "behaving like a junkie". It was the least junkie thing I did for years. I realize that in your line of work you are looking at the situation with a completely different perspective and indeed a completely different reality than the one I have known. Buying 20 mg. a day of methadone for $20 seemed to me a more intelligent decision than picking up a bottle of 1200 mg. for $13. It kept my price high and my quantity low, thereby decreasing my use. And there were absolutely no false pretenses involved in my receiving a prescription from the doctor - he knew the entire story. As far as doctors not being able to prescribe it, I have no idea what the law is, but I do know that he is the one who writes the methadone scripts for the inmates at two local jails. I know he didn't indicate in my records that he was treating me for pain, he indicated it was for addiction, because he had to turn over a copy of my file after we had a car accident and the insurance wanted to settle with us.

Isn't EVERYONE in AA a "dry drunk"? Why would they be there otherwise? Or do you just mean the ones who are bound to relapse because they don't have an affiliation with a "program"? I have a real problem with AA and many 12-step programs. Not everyone has the same needs. Not everyone sees themselves as "powerless" and in need of help from a Higher Power. I read some statistics the other day at my mother-in-law's house in a nursing magazine (she's an RN) about AA and other ways of dealing with addictions, like secular treatments and just going cold turkey. The numbers are all basically the same. I object to the herd mentality of AA, and the sentiment that people can't handle addiction of their own. Obviously not everyone can. Obviously 12-step programs don't work for everyone either, else we wouldn't have junkies and drunks at all. If AA or NA works for some people, that's great. Deciding to quit and taking the necessary steps FOR ME to do so is what it took for me. Your mileage may vary, naturally.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-11-2004, 07:34 PM

A couple I know joined AA about 4 or 5 months ago. It's working well for them because it gave them a new social circle to hang with and go places with, that don't drink. It would have been much harder, if even possible, to quit if they were hanging with the same old crowd.

Cyber Wolf · 10-12-2004, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jane_says

I have a real problem with AA and many 12-step programs. Not everyone has the same needs. Not everyone sees themselves as "powerless" and in need of help from a Higher Power. I read some statistics the other day at my mother-in-law's house in a nursing magazine (she's an RN) about AA and other ways of dealing with addictions, like secular treatments and just going cold turkey. The numbers are all basically the same. I object to the herd mentality of AA, and the sentiment that people can't handle addiction of their own. Obviously not everyone can. Obviously 12-step programs don't work for everyone either, else we wouldn't have junkies and drunks at all. If AA or NA works for some people, that's great. Deciding to quit and taking the necessary steps FOR ME to do so is what it took for me. Your mileage may vary, naturally.

Does AA actually tout themselves as The Solution for everyone with drinking problems they can't control or do they offer themselves as one solution of many?

10-08-2004, 02:24 PM	#3
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	drugs are neither evil nor good. They just are what they are. The most destructive drug is alcohol and it's perfectly legal to buy and use that-providing you are of legal age. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

10-08-2004, 04:37 PM	#4
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Is weed consumption prevalent in PA, or what? um... duh __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

10-09-2004, 11:15 PM	#8
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	how many bundles in a peck? __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

10-10-2004, 12:20 PM	#10
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Replacing an addiction with another, less fun addiction, particularly one that still allows you to continue use of the addictive substance you're trying to get off of in the first place never made any real sense to me. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-10-2004, 09:50 PM	#12
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	You may have stopped using, but you didn't stop behaving like a junkie. You were getting meds either illegally (from friends who got them also) or from a doctor who was writing script under false pretenses ... primary/family care docs can write for methadone for pain under some circumstances, but aren't licensed for detox. In AA such folks are called "dry drunks." I don't know what the NA equivalent terminology would be. All that being said, I hope your life is now better, and you remain stable and sober. My hospital isn't licensed for methadone, but can get it under special circumstances from a local clinic, but the patient has to already be registered with that clinic in order to receive the doses. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-08-2004, 06:25 PM	#5
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Dont know about PA, but back in Bolton in the North of England my Ex was once offered a joint during his driving lesson by his driving instructor.

10-10-2004, 11:12 AM	#9
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Thanks for sharing that with us Jane. I have a couple of friends who have had to make recourse to methadone programmes in recent years. Getting off an addictive substance is never easy, regardless of which method is used. I have a great deal of admiration for those who do it. Indeed I have admiration for those that try as well. Hell, quitting tobacco is hard enough to give me pause.

10-10-2004, 09:18 PM	#11
jane_says Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW VA Posts: 200	On further reflection, this now seems like something I shouldn't have brought up even on anonymous message board. Even so, here we are. Wolf, for me the methadone was my favorite. Even before I had my own script I would do it if I could get it. It wasn't less fun to me - it was more fun. It felt more like smack than anything else, and it kept me from getting sick for a day and a half. One of the main reasons I wanted to go on the methadone was that with my own script, it was certainly cheaper than the 300-400 mg. of pain pills I was taking. I hear you about replacing one addiction with another. Methadone can be extremely dangerous. I know several people who have ODed on it, and several who have died. But for many people, it has been a lifesaver. It is possible to start taking it and never stop. I was scared of that happening to me. I knew if I wanted to take it indefinitely, there was no reason why I couldn't. That's what prompted me to wean myself off it. But I know that without it I'd not be where I am today.

10-10-2004, 10:19 PM	#13
jane_says Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW VA Posts: 200	I resent you calling what I did to get off opiates "behaving like a junkie". It was the least junkie thing I did for years. I realize that in your line of work you are looking at the situation with a completely different perspective and indeed a completely different reality than the one I have known. Buying 20 mg. a day of methadone for $20 seemed to me a more intelligent decision than picking up a bottle of 1200 mg. for $13. It kept my price high and my quantity low, thereby decreasing my use. And there were absolutely no false pretenses involved in my receiving a prescription from the doctor - he knew the entire story. As far as doctors not being able to prescribe it, I have no idea what the law is, but I do know that he is the one who writes the methadone scripts for the inmates at two local jails. I know he didn't indicate in my records that he was treating me for pain, he indicated it was for addiction, because he had to turn over a copy of my file after we had a car accident and the insurance wanted to settle with us. Isn't EVERYONE in AA a "dry drunk"? Why would they be there otherwise? Or do you just mean the ones who are bound to relapse because they don't have an affiliation with a "program"? I have a real problem with AA and many 12-step programs. Not everyone has the same needs. Not everyone sees themselves as "powerless" and in need of help from a Higher Power. I read some statistics the other day at my mother-in-law's house in a nursing magazine (she's an RN) about AA and other ways of dealing with addictions, like secular treatments and just going cold turkey. The numbers are all basically the same. I object to the herd mentality of AA, and the sentiment that people can't handle addiction of their own. Obviously not everyone can. Obviously 12-step programs don't work for everyone either, else we wouldn't have junkies and drunks at all. If AA or NA works for some people, that's great. Deciding to quit and taking the necessary steps FOR ME to do so is what it took for me. Your mileage may vary, naturally.

10-11-2004, 07:34 PM	#14
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	A couple I know joined AA about 4 or 5 months ago. It's working well for them because it gave them a new social circle to hang with and go places with, that don't drink. It would have been much harder, if even possible, to quit if they were hanging with the same old crowd. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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