Vaccination & epidemic

[jinx]

Originally Posted by jinx

Actually, no one knows if she was predisposed with a mitochondrial disorder, or if she developed it, along with autism, after receiving 5 vaccines...

Mitochondrial dysfunction, impaired oxidative-reduction activity, degeneration, and death in human neuronal and fetal cells induced by low-level exposure to thimerosal and other metal compounds

Thimerosal-induced cellular damage as evidenced by concentration- and time-dependent mitochondrial damage, reduced oxidative-reduction activity, cellular degeneration, and cell death in the in vitro human neuronal and fetal model systems studied. Thimerosal at low nanomolar (nM) concentrations induced significant cellular toxicity in human neuronal and fetal cells. Thimerosal-induced cytoxicity is similar to that observed in AD pathophysiologic studies. Thimerosal was found to be significantly more toxic than the other metal compounds examined.

[Undertoad]

Uh well no actually... there's no full published record of the court's proceedings as far as I can tell, but that was the father's position and largely the position of the 5,000 cases that Clod mentions. Mercury is damaging to mitochondria.

Since 2002, petitioners have filed approximately 4,900 claims arguing that vaccines caused the petitioners’ autism. The Court is holding hearings before Special Masters on three different theories: (1) that the Mumps-Measles-Rubella vaccine together with thimerosal causes autism; (2) that thimerosal alone causes autism; and (3) that MMR alone causes autism.

Poling was in this group. Now here's all you need to know about the "omnibus autism courts" set up for the 5,000 claims:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0901344_2.html

Originally Posted by WaPo

The shift from laboratory to courtroom means the outcome will hinge not on scientific standards of evidence but on a legal standard of plausibility -- what one lawyer for the families called "50 percent and a feather." That may make it easier for the plaintiffs to sway the panel of three "special masters," which is why the decision could not only change the lives of thousands of American families but also have a profound effect on the decisions of parents around the world about whether to vaccinate their children.

Bold mine. Despite this fact, the 5,000 cases have been dismissed via the Omnibus after the special masters found no evidence in three test cases (Poling was not one of the test cases).

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

It would appear in the case of Hannah Poling that the government has "admitted" (by settling out of court) that thimerosal was responsible. That's not your position.

There is no such thing as "settling out of court" in this case. It is not a civil suit, it is a specially-commissioned body that rules for or against compensation to the victim. They ruled in favor of compensation to cover her medical expenses.

And in the Bailey Banks case, his vaccines did not contain thimerosal.

In sum, the Court’s factual findings are fourfold:

1. Bailey did show evidence of ataxia in the period surrounding his seizure, following his vaccination;

2. Such ataxia, when considered in conjunction with the radiological results and some other “soft indicia”, together support the Court’s finding that Bailey did, in fact, suffer from ADEM.

3. Bailey’s ADEM was caused-in-fact and proximately caused by his vaccination. It is wellunderstood that the vaccination at issue can cause ADEM, and the Court finds, on the record filed herein, that it did actually cause the ADEM.

4. Bailey’s ADEM was severe enough to cause lasting, residual damage, and retarded his developmental progress, which fits under the generalized heading of Pervasive Developmental Delay, or PDD. Additionally, this chain of causation was not too remote, but was rather a proximate sequence of cause and effect leading inexorably from vaccination to Pervasive Developmental Delay.

What's more, the Bailey Banks legal proceedings also reference two previous rulings that I had never even heard of:

Petitioner cites to two previous cases heard by this Court where the Special Master found that the MMR vaccine had caused ADEM: Tufo v. Secretary of HHS, No. 98-0108V, 2001 WL 286911, 2001 US Claims LEXIS 46 (Fed. Cl. Spec. Mstr. Mar. 2, 2001) and Lodge v. Secretary of HHS, No. 92-0697V, 1994 WL 34609, 1994 US Claims LEXIS 19 (Fed. Cl. Spec. Mstr. Jan 25, 1994). Petitioner also cites to the 1994 report of the IOM, which found the theory that a vaccine can “induce...an autoimmune response...by nonspecific activation of the T cells directed against myelin proteins” to be “biologically plausible.”

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

There is no such thing as "settling out of court" in this case. It is not a civil suit, it is a specially-commissioned body that rules for or against compensation to the victim. They ruled in favor of compensation to cover her medical expenses.

I think what he means is that the CDC conceded the biological plausibility of the Poling's [expert's] claims without an an evidentiary hearing.

The Polings’ expert testified in court that the five vaccines administered had “stressed” her already weakened system and worsened her developing autism. The court was persuaded, without even holding a hearing, that the claim was biologically plausible and ruled in the Poling family’s favor. Damages have not yet been determined.

Note also that the ruling did not address what vaccine or what additive, ie, thimerosal, was the villain in this case;

link

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

there's no full published record of the court's proceedings as far as I can tell

I don't know about the Hannah Poling records, but the full court proceedings in the Bailey Banks case are included in the link I posted.

[OnyxCougar]

Links regarding vaccinations and their effect on the autoimmune system (and demyelination) here.

(The site is drcarley.com. She was an MD, and speaks out specifically against Vaccines. Alot of folks dismiss her as a quack, and she has had her license taken away because of her stance on these issues, but I want to point out that what she is saying in these articles on her website are the same things that are being said in these court cases that have been sourced in this thread. I wanted to post that up front, before anyone tries to dismiss her findings simply because of her politics.)

There are videos of her on youtube that are particularly informative, and clod's explanation of how vaccines bypass the inital IgA stage of the immune system is a paraphrase of Dr. Carley's explanation.

I also want to point out this:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad...7/8560781.html
and
in Czech and in Czech and in Czech

as well as

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs

Now the CDC has recommended over half the Americal population get the H1N1 flu shot.

The flu shot they are recommending is three injections. The first totally wipes out your immune system, so that you feel great (because your body isn't fighting anything any more). The second shot bypasses your normal immune system function and gives you whatever disease they want you to have, and the third shot turns your immunesystem back on. Either you'll die immediately (within 3 days) or your body will exhaust itself fighting off the disease, and most of the people will die anyway. (That's Dr. Carley.)

Now we're hearing about the possibility of mandatory H1N1 vaccinations? I don't think so.

[Clodfobble]

No offense OC, but when you're trying to garner credibility for your cause, referencing people who claim that the majority of people who receive the H1N1 vaccine are going to die... it doesn't really help.

I mean, come on. Is the flu shot a bad idea? Yes, I absolutely think so. Is it going to outright kill the majority, or even a significant percentage of the people who get it? No way.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

No offense OC, but when you're trying to garner credibility for your cause, referencing people who claim that the majority of people who receive the H1N1 vaccine are going to die... it doesn't really help.

I mean, come on. Is the flu shot a bad idea? Yes, I absolutely think so. Is it going to outright kill the majority, or even a significant percentage of the people who get it? No way.

Let me ask you this:

What if the govt and the drug companies that make the vaccines know exactly what they are doing to children and the rest of the population, and are doing it on purpose? (Don't go into the whys just yet. Just..what if they are doing it on purpose?)

Just think about that for a minute. As a mental exercise, if you like.

If you accept the possibility of that statement, let me go one more:

What if they wanted to get more adults than children involved? Children are covered with the childhood vaccines, what if they wanted to target adults?

Is it so crazy to even consider the possibility that the H1N1 virus was man-made, released into the wild, over media hyped on purpose, just to get people afraid enough to take another vaccine?

A few things to think about:

Do you really believe that the bioengineers are so bad at keeping records that they "find" 9200 vials of extremely deady shit? How do you know something is missing if you don't even know what you have??

Vaccines get contaminated all the damn time.

(if anyone has a philly.com archive subscription, please pull this article in it's entirety, I'm interested to see it

---
Karl Stark
Published on 2008-05-01, Page A01, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)

It is truly a stretch to think that all of these different companies have "accidental" contaminations of all these different "vaccines" from all these different plants over the years.

I mean, really. Can you just picture it?

"oops! uh, John, I um..."
"yes, betty?"
"well, I had a spill here."
"really, what happened?"
"well, I was doing some work on the AIDS virus, and then turned to look at my polio vaccine, and --whoopsie!-- some of the HIV went into the vaccination vat!! What ever will we do?"
"Don't panic, Betty. No one will ever know. And if they do find out, we'll just sell it to the Europeans. Something like this happened to Jerry over in MMR. Don't worry. He didn't get fired. In fact, they gave him a promotion!!"

Out of all the people that post on this thread, Clod, you of ALL people should be open minded enough to see that contaminated vaccines exist, that the govt is doing nothing about it, and it's only one step further to the idea that they are doing it on purpose, and advancing their agenda with a man-made virus and pushing their vaccination.

I told you on the post not to look at her politics, but the content of what she had to say about vaccines. Do not dismiss her as a kook, like a few people on this board did to you, Clod. Don't make that mistake and miss it.


eta: some of those links I posted in my first post, but I want to be clear, these are not isolated incidents. I don't understand why no one is even thinking about this facet of vaccinations.

[TheMercenary]

Interesting. But:

1. They were In Vitro studies.

2. And I agree with the conclusions, "Future studies need to be conducted to evaluate additional mechanisms underlying Thimerosal-induced cellular damage and assess potential co-exposures to other compounds that may increase or decrease Thimerosal-mediated toxicity." This is a single study.

3. I am glad to see someone taking a closer look at the science of it all.

[Undertoad]

I thought thimerosal was ruled out.

[jinx]

You better call the authors and tell them... boy, are they gonna feel pretty stupid...

[Undertoad]

I thought it was ruled out because it's not in vaccines any longer.

[Clodfobble]

It's been taken out of most routine childhood vaccines. It's still in the flu shot, which pediatricians recommend for babies of all ages every winter, as well as a handful of others.

[Undertoad]

Wikipedia says "some formulations of the inactivated influenza vaccine for children older than two years".

Removed from vaccines 10 years ago. Surely the numbers should be changing if thimerosal is the (main) culprit.

[jinx]

Don't forget about pregnant women getting the flu shots.

There's an extensive list of combinations of toxins and metals in a long list of vaccines. Assuming that one component in causing one problem is... well that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you've uncovered information in your research of vaccines that would change my mind though...