Have we become used to or immune to mass shootings?

[henry quirk]

"It's dishonest to claim that the current one doesn't exist because you're worried about the next one."

When the current offered compromise is just a step in a series of compromises designed to disarm folks (and so isn't a compromise at all), then -- no -- it's not dishonest.

#

"And it's disingenuous to use the dishonest claim that liberals don't compromise to justify the fact that the NRA doesn't."

Fuck the NRA. You think the NRA is the problem. It ain't nuthin'. Me, I'm the problem...I have a gun and won't give it up, or be hobbled in my ownership of it. End the NRA and you still have (folks like) me to deal with.

No compromises...no deals...no 'feel good' solutions.

I will not accept restrictions cuz of the bad acts of others.

[tw]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

When the current offered compromise is just a step in a series of compromises designed to disarm folks (and so isn't a compromise at all), then -- no -- it's not dishonest.

Wow. He was able to post without profanity.

Originally Posted by henry quirk

Fuck the NRA.

Damn. I was hoping he could.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

... And it's disingenuous to use the dishonest claim that liberals don't compromise to justify the fact that the NRA doesn't.

And now I'll say again for the hard of comprehending, giving an inch opens the door for leftist extremists to try to take a mile and liberals aren't even going to try to do anything about it. It's not a compromise unless both sides are doing what it takes to enforce the agreement. I've seen liberals dropping the ball on this for forty years. It's not just what they do, it's who they are: the same people who would subvert the Constitution rather than do what it takes to change it ... the low-lives.

Neither the NRA nor any other organization (e.g. political party) needs any more justification than that to put them on ignore. They got what they bargained for, their children are paying the price, and all they want to do is argue that their children's safety is someone else's responsibility. Their bellyaching is not favorably considered. Give them more Trump and NRA. If it doesn't kill them, it'll make them stronger.

[Flint]

We comprehend you, it's easy to comprehend--all you're saying is that "Liberals want to take your guns away." Easy. But it's not true. The "inch" consists of common sense measures that a majority of Americans want. Let's discuss these proposals in good faith.

[tw]

Originally Posted by sexobon

And now I'll say again for the hard of comprehending, giving an inch opens the door for leftist extremists to try to take a mile and liberals aren't even going to try to do anything about it.

An extremist even posted that moderates define the NRA. Anyone who makes a conclusion by first learning history knows an extremist is reciting what the Central Committee of the Communist Party has ordered him to think. (Or is it the Nazi party? They also demonstrate against moderates by carrying big guns.)

NRA had a long history of promoting responsible gun ownership. "NRA support gun control for much of the 20th century, its leadership in fact lobbied for and co-authored gun control legislation." NRA was a leading advocate of gun regulations due to a massive 1930 murder rate directly traceable to more and more powerful guns. NRA was even a leading advocate for limiting gun ownership when Kennedy was shot in 1963.

That changed in 1971 when the ATF, during a house raid, shot and paralyzed Kenyon Ballew; suspected of stockpiling illegal weapons. In 1975, the NRA changed from responsible gun ownership to giving more and bigger guns to everyone. Only extremists believe a lie that more guns make a safety society. This was discuss here years ago with facts and numbers. Increase in number of guns throughout history has always been followed by a massive increase in gun deaths.

A major change occurred even over a trivial issue. Issue was lead contamination on firing ranges. Lead danger was just too much for wackos who denied lead was dangerous, must be in all paints, and must never be removed from gasoline. For the same reasons those extremists today also know global warming does not exist. They were told what to believe rather than first learn facts.

Another factor was the famous "The Cincinnati Revolution". Extremists took over; NRA promoted more and bigger guns. We see today the results of that extremism even in 'the murdered students of the week'. We need a weekly lottery for the number of students killed every week. But the NRA will complain. It does not promote bigger guns with larger clips.

NRA was once a major proponent of responsible gun ownership NRA now advocates more and bigger guns in every house - even if he is a felon. Does not matter what they say; what matters is what they promote to even make guns available to felons.

NRA has successfully protected a felon's access to assault weapons. He just cannot buy them in a gun store. But can purchase on the street or in gun shows. What moderate would promote that? What Sexobon calles a moderate is a wacko extremist. But to him, that is a moderate. And everyone else must be a liberal. It clearly defines him as an extremist so right wing as to be wacko.

Facts make it clear. NRA since the late 1970s was dominated by extremists who promote soundbytes to increase the power, munitions, and numbers of guns. They have not said it yet. But their propaganda even justifies 155 mm howitzers and grenade launchers. Their rhetoric: that will somehow increase human safety and reduce crime.

A moderate can see through those lies. An extremist does not.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Flint

We comprehend you, it's easy to comprehend--all you're saying is that "Liberals want to take your guns away." Easy. But it's not true. The "inch" consists of common sense measures that a majority of Americans want. Let's discuss these proposals in good faith.

Been there, done that, the other side dropped the ball repeatedly when it came to reigning in their extreme factions while those who leaned conservative rode shotgun to keep their extreme factions in check. That can happen only so many times before it becomes self evident that liberals are interested in what the other side can do for them; but, when it comes to what they can do for the other side, not so much. Your good faith line has been used ad museum with the aforementioned results. If you want to show good faith, change the Constitution. I've been watching this dog and pony show since before you were born and that's where it's at now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

tw, calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an extremist, or a child, blows your credibility from the git go.

[henry quirk]

Then lay them out, one by one, Flint.

You do it, not tw (cuz he's a needledick and I'm done [for the moment] with his horseshit).

You, Flint, list each of these common sense proposals.

I'm pretty damn sure I know them all already, and I'm equally sure I can illustrate how each won't work and acts as a mere gateway to wider, deeper, restrictions.

Surprise me, Flint...show me I'm wrong, or stymie me (first time for everything, I suppose, and I'm way past due for a good stymie).

[sexobon]

Tw, I bought you a gift membership in the NRA in your username. In around 10 - 11 months you may get a renewal notice at the Cellar email address in your profile contact info. Let me know when you get it and I'll pick up the tab. Don't say I never gave you anything.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

tw, calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an extremist, or a child, blows your credibility from the git go.

Not to mention he said a .22 cal. six shooter is enough for anybody.



You can't read his writings and keep a straight face anymore.

[henry quirk]

"he said a .22 cal. six shooter is enough for anybody."

Till, as I say, he and his declare pop guns, slingshots, and hard stares to be 'assault weapons'.

#

"You can't read his writings and keep a straight face anymore."

I ain't laughin'...motherfucker gets up my nose like nuthin' else (him and all those crapsacks who wanna save folks from themselves...sanctimonious shits...righteous sparrowfarts).

[xoxoxoBruce]

Hey hey now, sparrowfarts is a pretty serious accusation.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Been there, done that, the other side dropped the ball repeatedly when it came to reigning in their extreme factions while those who leaned conservative rode shotgun to keep their extreme factions in check. That can happen only so many times before it becomes self evident that liberals are interested in what the other side can do for them; but, when it comes to what they can do for the other side, not so much. Your good faith line has been used ad museum with the aforementioned results. If you want to show good faith, change the Constitution. I've been watching this dog and pony show since before you were born and that's where it's at now.

There is a whole other thread here if anybody is interested. Maybe sexobon would like to expand his theory of why we're on the cusp of wrecking the American Experiment. There is some truth in it.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

tw, calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an extremist, or a child, blows your credibility from the git go.

When did I call you an extremist? Cite the example.


And yes, many adults do think like children. It was necessary to bring Hitler to power. It explains so many addicted cigarette smoker. It even explains so many who just knew Saddam had WMDs - using emotion and no facts.

They did not do that for logical (adult) reasons. They did that because the brain of a child (emotions) made that decision.

Sorry. But facts does not go away just because you do not like it. Many do not like it. And do not / cannot challenge it in an adult manner - logically. Many do not like it emotionally.

The adult who is still a child was even defined here by citing research into adolescence. It would only make angry an adult thinks like a child. Who is insulted rather than learns.

Credibility comes from honesty - and not by petting the emotions of a wild dog. There is no way around many adults who still think like children - and then voted for a man only because he attacks and insults others. He even inspires race hatred. To adults who are still children, that is leader. To an adult who is thinking logically like an adult, that is a threat. Especially if permitted access to big guns or nuclear missiles.

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

C'mon, Pete...I see you there...gimme your best shot.

Ok henry. I've got a few free minutes so let's see what you're willing to do.

I'm willing to have an open and honest discussion with you IF you are willing to abide by some rules.

Honest answers to questions, no bullshit.
No personal attacks.
Keep to the point.
This will be no internet troll fest. Just a real discussion between two people.
Willing to live with some potentially long delays - I still don't have a lot of free time.

Willing to give it a go?