Understanding terrorism

[mrnoodle]

For that, I am immensely gratified. Have you heard some of those people?

[mrnoodle]

I was kidding. I didn't look for shit. I went to Wendy's


Still missing the point though: The terrorists don't need to make their own propoganda, they can use ours.

[mrnoodle]

Ocean = our idiots can't take a donkey over the border to fight for the cause.

"We can't hurt anybody, it will be misconstrued and even more people will dislike us" is the opposite of the attitude that will win the war. If 100,000 terrorists are killed and that causes 20,000 to join the cause, that's 80,000 to our favor. We're not worse off because of the new 20,000

If the Brits bombed a town because it was infested with terrorists, I feel sorry for the non-terrorists who died. Not sorry enough to allow the terrorists to hide under their skirts, however.

[mrnoodle]

But there is no equivalence between the number of terrorists and how angry the left is that we went to war.

[Happy Monkey]

Well, a majority of the country now feels that Iraq was a bad idea, so it's not just the "left" anymore. And I expect the growth of that number does have a link to the failure of the war to curb terrorism.

As for those who were against the war from the start, it was the expectation that becoming the agressors in an invasion would be counterproductive in the war on terror. The realization of that expectation is more an occasion for sadness than anger, I guess.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

Well, a majority of the country now feels that Iraq was a bad idea, so it's not just the "left" anymore.

Because they are constantly bombarded by agenda-driven media that steadfastly refuse to report anything that might be construed as positive for this administration.

Exactly. my. point.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

--snip--As for those who were against the war from the start, it was the expectation that becoming the agressors in an invasion would be counterproductive in the war on terror. The realization of that expectation is more an occasion for sadness than anger, I guess.

Sadness, AND anger. And helplessness, futility, astonsishment, bewilderment, confusion, resignation, and determination, among others.

Sadness at the profligate needless waste of American lives in a futile, wrongheaded, ill-conceived and poorly executed aggressive war of invasion. Sadness at the loss of life for all who died.

Anger, well, I seemed to have covered this already.

Helplessness at the continuing flailings of an administration that doesn't know where it's going or how to get there but confidently presses the pedal to the metal while observing "We're making good progress". Progress is a vector quantity, having magnitude and direction.

Futility at the prospect of looking at the same evidence and seeing those in power draw the wrong conclusions, time after time.

Astonishment at the seemingly willful inability of the loyal opposition in our country to disregard evidence, facts and truth as mere inconveniences in pursuit of the elusive "victory" (or "security" or "freedom").

Bewilderment from being surrounded by a swarming array of moving targets and shifting goals, an overall lack of direction.

Confusion at the constant changes in the messages from our leaders: WMD, democracy, terrorists, al-Qaeda, Saudia Arabia, Iraq, oil, GWOT and The Fight Against Global Aggression or whatever it's called today...

Resignation to the fact that our country is on a path that takes enormous efforts to change, and that popping a vessel over today's idiot takes away one more chance to make a difference tomorrow.

Determination to work as hard as possible that the mistakes of this period in our history be remembered and learned from and not repeated.

[Undertoad]

In Iraq most attacks are on other Arab Muslims, so who is being recruited for what now?

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

In Iraq most attacks are on other Arab Muslims, so who is being recruited for what now?

No answer HM?

It's important for us to get the narrative right. We aren't getting it from anywhere else so we have to depend on each other. This morning Belmont Club looks at Michael Yon's latest dispatch and points out bin Laden's response to Somalia. What gave him strength was American withdrawl:

But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where -- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order -- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.

Yon's latest also includes the point that one of the terrorists that the soldiers are fighting was previously captured, spent time at Abu Ghraib, was released against protest and returned to fight. He didn't have to be recruited. He was a bad guy and remained a bad guy after thinking about it in prison.

Regular Yon readers will know... Abu Ghraib is like a vacation, six months in air conditioning with three squares. It's important for us to get the narrative right. We aren't getting it from anywhere else.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

No answer HM?

They subscribe to the same mentality that mrnoodle is championing. They see some other Muslims as assisting the enemy and say screw 'em. Or they figure it's just too bad if some innocents happened to be near the American targets.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

This morning Belmont Club looks at Michael Yon's latest dispatch and points out bin Laden's response to Somalia. What gave him strength was American withdrawl

What gave him strength is that America went into Somalia without any smoking gun. Insufficient reason to be there and no comprehension of WHY we entered are why the withdrawal was necessary AND why bin Laden would have been emboldened.

You would think we would have learned from Somalia about the dangers of invading a nation without a smoking gun. And yet even in the Cellar, some advocated the same mistake in Iraq using mythical reasons such as WMDs. And so bin Laden is laughing at America - emboldened by the extremist rhetoric that protected bin Laden. Some Americans were even so foolish as to think our own allies (Germany and France) were against us rather than first learn the lessons of Somalia and what those allies were warning about.

Bin Laden still runs free because too many Americans here forget where the smoking gun exists ... Afghanistan. So instead we blame Saddam for 11 September and run off to another Vietnam. Then when it becomes a quagmire, we then blame it on Somalia? Where does this extremist rhetoric come from?

[richlevy]

Basically, we have a war between people who find Fox News completely unbiased and truthful, and people who think the same of Al-Jazeera.

It would be nice if the skeptics could be left alone.

[bargalunan]

Well done !
In order to really agree :
Do you remember my questions in #340 ?

[mrnoodle]

Sort of. I remember reading the radio interview, which had an ex-army colonel talking about coups d'etat and other Art Bell-type nonsense. One of those "we have an expert who knows a bunch of secret stuff that no one else is covering, but we are presenting it LIVE!!! on our midnight radio show".

Then you asked, "what if it had happened in France?" And I refuse to answer, because to do so would Godwin the thread.

[bargalunan]

Too nice !


but sooooooo easy