Men Abortion and Choice - Page 28

Spexxvet · 08-24-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I disagree. A choice is just that, a choice. Too many people think that pro-choice means you can choose to abort. Not believing that it also includes the right to choose to carry to term is short-sighted, and negates the whole right to choose.
...

Wait.... if you are pro-choice, it's not MANDATORY to have an abortion, if you get pregnant? Wow, what a concept!

Shawnee123 · 08-24-2007, 01:42 PM

Heeeheeee, Spexx!

Cicero · 08-24-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The other thing is that we have complete cultures of women now believing that having the baby is more important than having the father, or any father of any of their 4 kids from different fathers, not being involved and that has completely acceptable.

"Complete Cultures of Women?" Weird.

Last I heard the baby is more important. Or is that just me?

I'm beginning to believe that some people around here only believe in a woman's right to be blamed for any occurence. As long as it is conveniently applied to everything that is unholy.

What a smack in the face Merc....A lot of women are abandoned or have to leave with their kids because of violence....and you accuse them of making a poor choices. This is really insulting Merc.

yesman065 · 08-24-2007, 06:31 PM

That is not what I read in his post - I think he meant that there are women who think of the man as no more than a sperm donor. In some cases, I don't know how many, he is absolutely right. It is far more "socially acceptable" for an unmarried woman to have a child or children, than it used to be.

DanaC · 08-24-2007, 06:35 PM

I suspect, though I have no figures for it, that the majority of single mums are not single mums because they chose that path. However, the fact that it is socially acceptable for women to bring up a child alone does somewhat free women from the constraints of living in a world where they will have moral opprobrium heaped upon them if they happen to get unlucky in bed. The fact that a small minority of women actually choose not to co-parent doesn't outweigh that for me.

I will admit, that a few years ago when I was giving serious consideration to whether or not I want children at some point, I did think that I would only really want to do that if I could be a single parent. Why? Because most men I know, whilst lovely and reasonable much of the time, have a tendency to be a little overbearing at times. What is vocalised as a fifty-fifty decision making process, for instance, actually means he gets final veto ( a little like rk's view on abortion). I had a hard enough time not physically killing my ex when we were rearing a puppy. If there had been a child in the mix I would be in jail by now :P

yesman065 · 08-24-2007, 06:43 PM

I never said a majority - I certainly don't think its anywhere near that. I'm sorry - I was just trying to interpret what I thought he was saying. I can think of a couple examples though - One was a local newswoman who wanted a child and she got artificially insemenated. Can't think of her name though - Lisa something - maybe? whatever.

Cicero · 08-31-2007, 12:23 PM

Yesman-I was talking to the person that said "Complete Cultures of Women". I know what he meant...I don't need it explained. I think he just needed a reminder of how things got to be that way.

And what Dana is saying is the reason I am never going to have children with my husband. God love 'im. The second he talked to me that way in front of my kid.......well, it just wouldn't work out lets say....
But we didn't marry with kids in mind anyway. I don't mind not having one at all. I chose my husband....for good and bad. But lets face it...the great man that he is....he's just not cut out for it and he's not any less of a person for that. We just have a real view of our limitations. I would be too protective and could see myself pouncing on him like an enraged tiger. Not good. And he would try to constantly act as if I was stupid and his word was golden.....and he mentioned the other night in our conversation about it that his controlling behaviors would just get worse. And I believe him. Nothing wrong with not being cut out for being a parent. We may be cut out for fine genetic reproductions...but not parents. We are being realisitic. We think we would have a fine kid...it's just sad that we both have personality issues resulting from our family environments that would screw up everything and quickly. I think we are better people for not trusting each other to do this and not do it with each other. Maybe I could do it if I married someone who didn't act like twat sometimes...but I didn't. I don't even want one that bad..If I did we would be getting a divorce. But I chose that peckerhead first.

The ideal situation would be for us both to change and have a kid.....but lets see the reality of that actually happening?

There are real reasons some women don't want a guy around and some guys if they are honest, like my husband can say, "hey I am awesome", but I might be a terrible father......but most women never got the choice.

Griff · 08-31-2007, 01:03 PM

How about everybody keeping a contract in their wallet vis a vis parental rights. Have the bartender witness it and you're good to go.

binky · 09-08-2007, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

Having an abortion is not being unaccountable for your actions. Having an abortion is a scary thing that some women choose to do for their own reasons. You want to be allowed to have a say over what happens to any foetus springing from your sperm, don't put it inside a woman who hasn't said she wants your baby.

EXACTLY!!

9th Engineer · 09-08-2007, 01:13 PM

More and more I've been switching to the mindset that we should be teaching kids the virtues of abortion from a very young age. Abortion is about keeping unplanned pregnancies down, right? I'm envisioning a system where 7-8yo boys and girls are taught that it's very good thing to have an abortion, good or better then having a kid. Daemonize people who selfishly force others to care for their kids. Lots of indoctrinating necessary, but hey, not like that's been a problem until now. Sounds like something you could write a book about...
It'd be every uber-liberal's dream come true from what I've learned, and I wouldn't have to pay for some little snot's daycare. Win-win.

Abortions are scary? Never heard that crop up in health-ed.

09-08-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC
Having an abortion is not being unaccountable for your actions. Having an abortion is a scary thing that some women choose to do for their own reasons. You want to be allowed to have a say over what happens to any foetus springing from your sperm, don't put it inside a woman who hasn't said she wants your baby.

I agree. People should discuss what could happen before sex. But, once you do, you own those actions.
I was one of the few young men that did not just sleep with anyone. I never got it.

bluecuracao · 09-09-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Abortions are scary? Never heard that crop up in health-ed.

Are you saying you don't believe it, because they didn't tell you that in health-ed? Or do you mean that health-ed is lacking, because they don't tell the whole story?

9th Engineer · 09-09-2007, 02:34 PM

I'm saying that health-ed failed to insert that little detail into the curriculum, I'll never be able to say if it's scary or not though.:p Scary is also kind of a personal assessment, most likely some women find it scary, others don't.

Cicero · 09-10-2007, 10:08 AM

Hey look...I'm holding back for once. I hope I've made someone here proud today. Look....I did not vomit a fact, anecdote, or slew of curse words.
I really do think you guys are helping with some ordinary knee-jerk reactions.
I even have the time right now to write a very long response to each of you. Wow. Just wow.
Ok now back to what you were doing.

Spexxvet · 09-10-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

More and more I've been switching to the mindset that we should be teaching kids the virtues of abortion from a very young age. Abortion is about keeping unplanned pregnancies down, right? I'm envisioning a system where 7-8yo boys and girls are taught that it's very good thing to have an abortion, good or better then having a kid. Daemonize people who selfishly force others to care for their kids. Lots of indoctrinating necessary, but hey, not like that's been a problem until now. Sounds like something you could write a book about...
It'd be every uber-liberal's dream come true from what I've learned, and I wouldn't have to pay for some little snot's daycare. Win-win.

Abortions are scary? Never heard that crop up in health-ed.

My take: the unfortunate thing is that, TYPICALLY, the people who want to prevent a woman from making her own choice are the same people who don't want their kids to learn how to prevent unwanted pregnancy in school. Yet they also don't teach them, themselves.

So what you have is kids who want to have sex, don't know how to prevent pregnancy, yet you don't want them to be able fix the problem after the fact, then they are ostracized for getting pregnant or having a child out of wedlock (bad girl), or they get into a marriage that nobody really wanted, often ending up a divorced, single parent. Seems like they get screwed all the way around.

08-24-2007, 01:42 PM	#407
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Heeeheeee, Spexx! __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

08-24-2007, 06:31 PM	#409
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	That is not what I read in his post - I think he meant that there are women who think of the man as no more than a sperm donor. In some cases, I don't know how many, he is absolutely right. It is far more "socially acceptable" for an unmarried woman to have a child or children, than it used to be. Last edited by yesman065; 08-24-2007 at 06:42 PM.

08-31-2007, 12:23 PM	#412
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Yesman-I was talking to the person that said "Complete Cultures of Women". I know what he meant...I don't need it explained. I think he just needed a reminder of how things got to be that way. And what Dana is saying is the reason I am never going to have children with my husband. God love 'im. The second he talked to me that way in front of my kid.......well, it just wouldn't work out lets say.... But we didn't marry with kids in mind anyway. I don't mind not having one at all. I chose my husband....for good and bad. But lets face it...the great man that he is....he's just not cut out for it and he's not any less of a person for that. We just have a real view of our limitations. I would be too protective and could see myself pouncing on him like an enraged tiger. Not good. And he would try to constantly act as if I was stupid and his word was golden.....and he mentioned the other night in our conversation about it that his controlling behaviors would just get worse. And I believe him. Nothing wrong with not being cut out for being a parent. We may be cut out for fine genetic reproductions...but not parents. We are being realisitic. We think we would have a fine kid...it's just sad that we both have personality issues resulting from our family environments that would screw up everything and quickly. I think we are better people for not trusting each other to do this and not do it with each other. Maybe I could do it if I married someone who didn't act like twat sometimes...but I didn't. I don't even want one that bad..If I did we would be getting a divorce. But I chose that peckerhead first. The ideal situation would be for us both to change and have a kid.....but lets see the reality of that actually happening? There are real reasons some women don't want a guy around and some guys if they are honest, like my husband can say, "hey I am awesome", but I might be a terrible father......but most women never got the choice. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

08-31-2007, 01:03 PM	#413
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	How about everybody keeping a contract in their wallet vis a vis parental rights. Have the bartender witness it and you're good to go. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

09-08-2007, 01:13 PM	#415
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	More and more I've been switching to the mindset that we should be teaching kids the virtues of abortion from a very young age. Abortion is about keeping unplanned pregnancies down, right? I'm envisioning a system where 7-8yo boys and girls are taught that it's very good thing to have an abortion, good or better then having a kid. Daemonize people who selfishly force others to care for their kids. Lots of indoctrinating necessary, but hey, not like that's been a problem until now. Sounds like something you could write a book about... It'd be every uber-liberal's dream come true from what I've learned, and I wouldn't have to pay for some little snot's daycare. Win-win. Abortions are scary? Never heard that crop up in health-ed. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

08-24-2007, 06:35 PM	#410
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I suspect, though I have no figures for it, that the majority of single mums are not single mums because they chose that path. However, the fact that it is socially acceptable for women to bring up a child alone does somewhat free women from the constraints of living in a world where they will have moral opprobrium heaped upon them if they happen to get unlucky in bed. The fact that a small minority of women actually choose not to co-parent doesn't outweigh that for me. I will admit, that a few years ago when I was giving serious consideration to whether or not I want children at some point, I did think that I would only really want to do that if I could be a single parent. Why? Because most men I know, whilst lovely and reasonable much of the time, have a tendency to be a little overbearing at times. What is vocalised as a fifty-fifty decision making process, for instance, actually means he gets final veto ( a little like rk's view on abortion). I had a hard enough time not physically killing my ex when we were rearing a puppy. If there had been a child in the mix I would be in jail by now :P

08-24-2007, 06:43 PM	#411
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	I never said a majority - I certainly don't think its anywhere near that. I'm sorry - I was just trying to interpret what I thought he was saying. I can think of a couple examples though - One was a local newswoman who wanted a child and she got artificially insemenated. Can't think of her name though - Lisa something - maybe? whatever.

09-09-2007, 02:34 PM	#418
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	I'm saying that health-ed failed to insert that little detail into the curriculum, I'll never be able to say if it's scary or not though.:p Scary is also kind of a personal assessment, most likely some women find it scary, others don't. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

09-10-2007, 10:08 AM	#419
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Hey look...I'm holding back for once. I hope I've made someone here proud today. Look....I did not vomit a fact, anecdote, or slew of curse words. I really do think you guys are helping with some ordinary knee-jerk reactions. I even have the time right now to write a very long response to each of you. Wow. Just wow. Ok now back to what you were doing. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

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