Tis The Poaching Season

[glatt]

Originally Posted by vrai_rennx

I wasn't off topic, I was just not a vegetarian. I wasn't off topic, I was just there for other aspects of animal rights besides veganism.

I think if you look closely at PETA, they admit that they are against eating meat. They are just going for the "easier" targets now, like animal testing and wearing fur. If they conquer those issues, they may focus on meat later.

You weren't with their program, and they didn't want you. I'm not a fan of censorship, but I think they have a right to keep their forum focused on a limited area of discussion. I don't like PETA, by the way, so don't think I am defending them because I'm a supporter.

Welcome to the Cellar. By the way, you can talk about anything here without getting banned. (Within the limits of the rules you read when you signed up.)

[glatt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

If we eat meat, why not wear the fur, if you wear leather, why not the fur... makes no sense.

I think the idea with fur is that the meat isn't eaten. The animal is raised and killed just for its fur. It's wasteful. Leather is different. The meat is used and so is the skin. That's a positive.

I'm opposed to wearing fur just because of the crass consumerism involved. It's the same reason I'm against Hummers. But I'm not going to ban either.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I disagree with you about the way animals feel about their young. I have spent an enormous amount of time with deer in the wild and have see their behavior. They are caring loving parents, just like cows & especially pigs... this point has nothing to do with eating them.

I believe that they are nurturing and protecting their young, but not that they have an emotional response to them. I think we project our own experiences onto the animals. The idea of "feelings" is wholly human -- come to think of it, not every human seems to have the ability to feel, either.

House cats are a prime example. Whenever a cat comes up and rubs its eyebrow gland thingys on you, it's not giving you kissy-wissies. It's marking you so some other cat doesn't come along and take you away. Oh well. If it makes people happy, let em think otherwise.

Eyebrow gland thingys and kissy wissies. Wow, I'm erudite.

[vrai_rennx]

Yeah... This was in my pre-hatred of Peta days. It's not the only reason I hate them, not like I was emotionally scarred or anything. I just think they'd make better progress if, instead of banning everyone who doesn't agree with them on every single little poin, they worked together towards what they did agree on, and maybe try to subtly convert me in the process. Not that it'd work, just that it'd prolly be better for their image.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by glatt

I used to spend a lot of time on a kayak building message board...

Ok, you're on a kayak, and you're building message boards? Wow! Can't you do that at home? You had me going, there. Eats, shoot, and leaves.

Every carnivore that PETA saves becomes a threat to prey animals. This is unconscionable! Kill predators before they kill helpless prey!

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

I believe that they are nurturing and protecting their young, but not that they have an emotional response to them.

Emotional response is a method by which instinct operates. Feelings are instinct. Logic is where we kick the asses of the rest of the animals. Even the dumbest human can outthink the smartest chimp, while there are animals that mourn their dead children more than some humans.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by glatt

I used to spend a lot of time on a kayak building message board. We didn't like it when people would visit our board and talk about how to buy plastic kayaks or try to talk about other stuff. The point of the board was to discuss how to best make kayaks.

Guillemot?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

If we eat meat, why not wear the fur, if you wear leather, why not the fur... makes no sense.

PETA says no meat, no leather, no fur....no pets....simply naysayers.

Other, more rational, people don't eat meat but don't have a problem with leather, because they realize you eat meat and the leather is a byproduct.

The anti-fur thing, is because fur animals are usually raised for fur alone and not a byproduct of the food supply. They don't like the idea of raising an animal simply for it's hide, but I doubt the rest is wasted. It probably goes into dog food or fertilizer.

I have no problem will snuffing the minks...nasty beasties they are.

[Elspode]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

If it has larger than average antlers, those antlers will be displayed on my wall -- not because of my feelings about my penis, but because I like the way it (edit: the rack, not my dick) looks and like to tell the story of the hunt to anyone who asks about it.

I should clarify my previously stated position to say that I also have no objection to displaying as a trophy any amusing parts of a creature that one has killed and eaten. They aren't using it anymore.

Pure trophy killing is not on my list of favorite, things, though.

Originally Posted by glatt

I think the idea with fur is that the meat isn't eaten. The animal is raised and killed just for its fur. It's wasteful. Leather is different. The meat is used and so is the skin. That's a positive.

I'm opposed to wearing fur just because of the crass consumerism involved. It's the same reason I'm against Hummers. But I'm not going to ban either.

The meat is not eaten by humans, it is eaten.
My father's Hummer gets better mileage than his Ford F-150 did and my neighbors Bronco now does, as well as all classes of Explorer, the full sized Nissan truck and almost all other full-sized trucks and SUVs...The H1 has been phazed out and now there is only the H2 and 3.
What, exactly, is your problem with them?
PETA, is also against milk, eggs, honey and all similar forms of animal "enslavement".

[bluecuracao]

I'd never known, until recently, just how hard bees have to work to make honey--it does look kinda mean when someone goes in and swipes it right out from under them.

Oh well.

You should see what-all goes into a pair of jeans.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Your right, we should. Everyone take off your jeans.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by BigV

Guillemot?

Yeah, that was the board I spent a lot of time at, but I built a CLC plywood kayak.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

My father's Hummer gets better mileage than his Ford F-150 did and my neighbors Bronco now does, as well as all classes of Explorer, the full sized Nissan truck and almost all other full-sized trucks and SUVs...The H1 has been phazed out and now there is only the H2 and 3.
What, exactly, is your problem with them?

I thought I was pretty clear about that. "Crass consumerism."

All the vehicles you mention are ones I'm not fond of. They are all wasteful. Although the trucks do have a utilitarian purpose and I don't oppose them when they are used that way. Most people don't need SUVs. When virtually all of your driving is done on paved surfaces, why would you need an SUV? I'm not going to support a ban on any of those vehicles, but that doesn't mean I have to like them. They are dangerous to the other vehicles on the road because they have so much more mass, they block visibility, they use more oil than my car, and people buy them mostly for intangible reasons that relate to status and feelings, and have nothing to do with needs.