Religion? - Page 3

vrai_rennx · 09-27-2006, 04:02 PM

The most the church ever hurt me was when I was in first grade at a Catholic school and they kept me in for recess because I didn't bow my head when I said Jesus' name.

But for the most part the reason I'm not any sort of Christian/organized religion is I think it's bull. The morals are (usually) good, but I don't need to believe in all this Jesus-is-the-son-of-God stuff to have good morals.

Ibby · 09-27-2006, 04:37 PM

I agree with Renn, except that I think that, though the morals WERE good, theyve been warped and twisted to the point that religion is MORE OFTEN used as a weapon than not. A lot of the problems in the world right about now are directly caused by organized religion.

Spexxvet · 09-27-2006, 05:33 PM

In fourth grade, my Sunday school class was unruly. The teacher slapped me, which was humiliating at that point in my life. I returned to church only for Christmas and Easter. It wasn't until I was 17-20 years old that I decided that the concept of an omnipotent god was foolish. It's merely a crutch for those who don't accept personal responsibility and won't acknowledge that sometimes, shit just happens. I am not anti-God, per se, just don't insist that I think the way you do, and don't force your values on me. After having kids, I attended church regularly for my wife's sake, but stopped about a year and a half ago.

09-27-2006, 08:22 PM

In 8th grade my parents sent me to a school run by the Missouri Synod (read "fundamentalist") Lutherns. The faith I had been raised in was a church called The Disciples of Christ or The First Christian Church. The Disciples beleive that no one should stand between you and God. Just as Jesus communicated directly with the first Christians - the 12 Disciples - He still does with us to this very day. You just pray and read the Bible.

The church bulletin lists the minister as "Entire Congregation." There's no doctrine to learn, and the Christian God I was exposed to until I met the Lutherns was all loving and all forgiving. The Disciples of Christ really is a pretty cool denomination.

Anyhow, I was stunned when I was introduced to Fundamentalism for the first time at age 13. All my classmates were members of the church and getting ready to be confirmed or something, so everyday, the Luthern Minister would come in and harangue us for an hour about unbaptized babies being burned in hell, and how THE END OF THE WORLD was coming any minute now and God was going to get you if you didn't watch out.

I didn't understand how this could be Christianity. The belief system was so different than what I had grown up with, and my Dad who was the one who took me to the First Christian Church was over in Vietnam. My mother is an atheist and wouldn't take me to church, and I knew it was hopeless to try to discuss religion with HER.

One day at lunch hour, one of my little fundie classmates asked me if I was "saved." I'd already given this question some considerable thought while enduring the daily harangues from "Pasteur Devil." I knew that the God of the Missouri Synod Lutherns wanted nothing to do with ME and the feeling was mutual. So, without hesitation I replied, "No, I am NOT saved!"

My shocked classmate ran straight to Pasteur Devil and snitched me out. I was called into Pasteur Devil's office, and we had quite the theological argument which ended with Pasteur Devil announcing to me that I was going straight to hell. I replied, "Good! Someone has to look after all those poor little unbaptized babies and it might as well be me." I think the only reason I wasn't expelled on the spot was because Pasteur Devil wanted the tuition fees my parents were shelling out for this so-called "education."

Still, I was only 13, and I felt worried about going to hell, but after a while I decided that it would probably be actually kind of fun to go to hell. My favorite writer, Samuel Clemens, would be there, as would a whole lot of other folks that I admired. If I went to heaven, I'd have to put up with folks like Pasteur Devil and a God who seemed little different from the supposed real devil.

All the other kids shunned me like I had the plague, and I persuaded my folks to forget private education and send me back to public school in time for the 10th grade. I walked away from Christianity at age 13 and seldom look back.

At this point I am sort of a Buddhist Deist, Navajo, nature worshipper. I beleive in an Intelligence of the Universe, but beyond that, I just try to follow my Buddhist practice.

Flint · 09-28-2006, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibram

A lot of the problems in the world right about now are directly caused by organized religion.

War-Torn Middle East Seeks Solace In Religion

09-28-2006, 12:15 PM

There's always the Tao of Frank... I've been thinking bout' it....

9th Engineer · 09-30-2006, 03:07 PM

Your church sounds even more like people inventing a etherial parent than other demoninations I've heard of. All-loving and all-forgiving is fine, but from what you said what's the point in even sticking the concept of God in there? You could have saved a bunch of time by just admitting you all gathered round and had a big 'I feel good about me' session every sunday. It's not even like it gave structure or guidence to your life because you were the authority,
so what you say, goes. Why even go to church to pray? You can talk one-on-one with god just fine from your own home. Did you need to stick in a diety to rationalize it? I'm sorry, but as much as it may have left you with fuzzy memories it has nothing which makes it religion.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-08-2006, 08:59 PM

I can bet that the leading cause of Atheism is Catholic School, second to actually reading the bible.

Another irony is that hardcore satanist are possibly more ethical than christians, that is if you believe in ethics.

wolf · 10-08-2006, 09:02 PM

I thought that the true irony of Satanism is that in order to be a Satanist you had to believe in the Christian God-Concept.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-08-2006, 09:18 PM

Not the satanist I've talked to.

Satan is more of a symbol then anything in LeVay Satanism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA

The Satanist does not believe in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic idea of God; the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards, towards God.

Here is some info on it. The Nine Satanic Statements, Eleven Satantic Rules of the Earth, and The Nine Satanic Sins are good/humorous reads.

xoxoxoBruce · 10-09-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marichiko

snip
The Disciples of Christ really is a pretty cool denomination.
snip
I walked away from Christianity at age 13 and seldom look back.
snip

I'd say you were removed from Christianity and forced into religion which you walked away from. That's too bad.

10-09-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Your church sounds even more like people inventing a etherial parent than other demoninations I've heard of. All-loving and all-forgiving is fine, but from what you said what's the point in even sticking the concept of God in there? You could have saved a bunch of time by just admitting you all gathered round and had a big 'I feel good about me' session every sunday. It's not even like it gave structure or guidence to your life because you were the authority,
so what you say, goes. Why even go to church to pray? You can talk one-on-one with god just fine from your own home. Did you need to stick in a diety to rationalize it? I'm sorry, but as much as it may have left you with fuzzy memories it has nothing which makes it religion.

I never saw your reply until just now, 9th. The Disciples teach the 10 commandments just like any other Christian denomination. They also beleive in baptism, total immersion baptism, at that. But they wait until a child is 12 or 13 or so to baptize them. They beleive a person should have some idea os what s/he is doing before s/he joins those who beleive in Christ by being baptized. The minister mostly gave sermons on stuff like kindness and compassion and asking for and following God's will. There was no hellfire and wrath of God stuff. But we did pray for forgiveness of our sins. There were Bible study classes where everyone sat around and discussed passages from the Bible, and what they meant to them. The purpose of going to church was to worship God. Sure, you could worship Him from anywhere you chose, but there's a certain power that you get from sitting in a congregation of like minded people, that doesn't always come when praying alone. And the word of God as written in the Bible was the authority. Feel as you wish about religion, but don't dis something you obviously haven't investigated.

And Bruce, I'd actually go back to the Disciples at this point in my life, but the closest First Christian Church is 50 miles away. I may make the trip one of these Sundays, anyhow, and check out how they're doing these days.

10-10-2006, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

I thought that the true irony of Satanism is that in order to be a Satanist you had to believe in the Christian God-Concept.

Nope.
Think of it as an anti-Buddhism. Instead of ridding yourself of the Beast, emotions and hedonism you become one/one with them... there is no faith, no real dogma. It is very much based in the teachings of Nietzsche.
The Christianity part is just imagery to show what it is against & a very convenient way to weed-out undesirables who think they may want to be part of the church.

Ibby · 10-10-2006, 03:33 AM

I dunno, I personally have a really low opinion of Satanism and (sorry, anyone who's offended) wiccans and co., because I've known way too many stupid little goth posers who became satanist/pagan/wiccan/babtist just to make mommy and daddy mad. I know not all are like that, but the ones that are have coloured my view of those that arent.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-10-2006, 07:19 AM

Actually, I believe true Satanist are suppose to rid people like these from their ranks. I'm assuming they are not part of LeVay Satanism but a false view on what Satanism is about.

09-27-2006, 04:02 PM	#31
vrai_rennx Voix de Vérité Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: at the bottom of the sea Posts: 59	The most the church ever hurt me was when I was in first grade at a Catholic school and they kept me in for recess because I didn't bow my head when I said Jesus' name. But for the most part the reason I'm not any sort of Christian/organized religion is I think it's bull. The morals are (usually) good, but I don't need to believe in all this Jesus-is-the-son-of-God stuff to have good morals. __________________ ~les beaux esprits se rencontrent~

09-27-2006, 04:37 PM	#32
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I agree with Renn, except that I think that, though the morals WERE good, theyve been warped and twisted to the point that religion is MORE OFTEN used as a weapon than not. A lot of the problems in the world right about now are directly caused by organized religion. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

09-27-2006, 05:33 PM	#33
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	In fourth grade, my Sunday school class was unruly. The teacher slapped me, which was humiliating at that point in my life. I returned to church only for Christmas and Easter. It wasn't until I was 17-20 years old that I decided that the concept of an omnipotent god was foolish. It's merely a crutch for those who don't accept personal responsibility and won't acknowledge that sometimes, shit just happens. I am not anti-God, per se, just don't insist that I think the way you do, and don't force your values on me. After having kids, I attended church regularly for my wife's sake, but stopped about a year and a half ago. __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

09-27-2006, 08:22 PM	#34
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	In 8th grade my parents sent me to a school run by the Missouri Synod (read "fundamentalist") Lutherns. The faith I had been raised in was a church called The Disciples of Christ or The First Christian Church. The Disciples beleive that no one should stand between you and God. Just as Jesus communicated directly with the first Christians - the 12 Disciples - He still does with us to this very day. You just pray and read the Bible. The church bulletin lists the minister as "Entire Congregation." There's no doctrine to learn, and the Christian God I was exposed to until I met the Lutherns was all loving and all forgiving. The Disciples of Christ really is a pretty cool denomination. Anyhow, I was stunned when I was introduced to Fundamentalism for the first time at age 13. All my classmates were members of the church and getting ready to be confirmed or something, so everyday, the Luthern Minister would come in and harangue us for an hour about unbaptized babies being burned in hell, and how THE END OF THE WORLD was coming any minute now and God was going to get you if you didn't watch out. I didn't understand how this could be Christianity. The belief system was so different than what I had grown up with, and my Dad who was the one who took me to the First Christian Church was over in Vietnam. My mother is an atheist and wouldn't take me to church, and I knew it was hopeless to try to discuss religion with HER. One day at lunch hour, one of my little fundie classmates asked me if I was "saved." I'd already given this question some considerable thought while enduring the daily harangues from "Pasteur Devil." I knew that the God of the Missouri Synod Lutherns wanted nothing to do with ME and the feeling was mutual. So, without hesitation I replied, "No, I am NOT saved!" My shocked classmate ran straight to Pasteur Devil and snitched me out. I was called into Pasteur Devil's office, and we had quite the theological argument which ended with Pasteur Devil announcing to me that I was going straight to hell. I replied, "Good! Someone has to look after all those poor little unbaptized babies and it might as well be me." I think the only reason I wasn't expelled on the spot was because Pasteur Devil wanted the tuition fees my parents were shelling out for this so-called "education." Still, I was only 13, and I felt worried about going to hell, but after a while I decided that it would probably be actually kind of fun to go to hell. My favorite writer, Samuel Clemens, would be there, as would a whole lot of other folks that I admired. If I went to heaven, I'd have to put up with folks like Pasteur Devil and a God who seemed little different from the supposed real devil. All the other kids shunned me like I had the plague, and I persuaded my folks to forget private education and send me back to public school in time for the 10th grade. I walked away from Christianity at age 13 and seldom look back. At this point I am sort of a Buddhist Deist, Navajo, nature worshipper. I beleive in an Intelligence of the Universe, but beyond that, I just try to follow my Buddhist practice. Last edited by marichiko; 09-27-2006 at 08:32 PM.

09-30-2006, 03:07 PM	#37
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Your church sounds even more like people inventing a etherial parent than other demoninations I've heard of. All-loving and all-forgiving is fine, but from what you said what's the point in even sticking the concept of God in there? You could have saved a bunch of time by just admitting you all gathered round and had a big 'I feel good about me' session every sunday. It's not even like it gave structure or guidence to your life because you were the authority, so what you say, goes. Why even go to church to pray? You can talk one-on-one with god just fine from your own home. Did you need to stick in a diety to rationalize it? I'm sorry, but as much as it may have left you with fuzzy memories it has nothing which makes it religion. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

09-28-2006, 12:15 PM	#36
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	There's always the Tao of Frank... I've been thinking bout' it....

10-08-2006, 08:59 PM	#38
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I can bet that the leading cause of Atheism is Catholic School, second to actually reading the bible. Another irony is that hardcore satanist are possibly more ethical than christians, that is if you believe in ethics.

10-08-2006, 09:02 PM	#39
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I thought that the true irony of Satanism is that in order to be a Satanist you had to believe in the Christian God-Concept. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-10-2006, 03:33 AM	#44
Ibby erika Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: "the high up north" Posts: 6,127	I dunno, I personally have a really low opinion of Satanism and (sorry, anyone who's offended) wiccans and co., because I've known way too many stupid little goth posers who became satanist/pagan/wiccan/babtist just to make mommy and daddy mad. I know not all are like that, but the ones that are have coloured my view of those that arent. __________________ not really back, you didn't see me, i was never here shhhhhh

10-10-2006, 07:19 AM	#45
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Actually, I believe true Satanist are suppose to rid people like these from their ranks. I'm assuming they are not part of LeVay Satanism but a false view on what Satanism is about.

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