Amnesty In America

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by monster

What about the highly skilled immigrants? The people who are brought in because there is not available USC with the desired skills. They come here legally, but are also affected by laws made to deal with illegal immigration.

Not so, this has no effect on people that are here legally, that I can see.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by monster

MASHfreak, you talk of two sides, but you only seem to deal with one type of immigrant? What about the highly skilled immigrants? The people who are brought in because there is not available USC with the desired skills. They come here legally, but are also affected by laws made to deal with illegal immigration. You need these immigrants, if only to replace the skilled Americans who emmigrate out. Entire different ball game but same ball field.

I thought we were specifically talking about illegal immigrants.

Either or, I am in favor of keeping these highly skilled immigrants, who wouldn't? Unless you are getting at something different.

[cowhead]

and hmm... what are the odds that someone's going to pay 5k as a fine when they are already here and more or less integrated? I treid to emigrate to canada and/or ireland and lt me tell you.. canada's a beeyotch... ireland (when I was looking anyway) wasn't so bad, but they were dealing with a bad emigration problem at the time.. nowadays? dunno. I was willing to go thru the proper channels... then again.. my life here isn't so bad... in a few more years I may try again...

on the above note, yeah... sorry... the 'american way' is not supposed to be deception etc. (yeah yeah yeah.. i know... but it's the ideal that we are dealing with. not the reality). I think that if you are here illegally, yes. you ought to be deported and billed for the transit costs... heh.. then again if you can't bill someone for medical costs (with the evil machine that that is) then.. well... the above is kinda moot.. huh?.. or for being able to find someone after they have committed vehicular manslaughter.. heh... suppose it's asking too much to ask them to pay the bill...then again I think I need a nap since I've been doing a job most americans don't want to do all day.

Eventually a movie will be made about this and it will be called ... The Amnestyville Horror.

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by NoBoxes

Eventually a movie will be made about this and it will be called ... The Amnestyville Horror.

lol

[Urbane Guerrilla]

None of the four answers provided are what I think of the matter.

I'm really not very interested in any of the provisions of this Act. It does nothing to address the root cause of the problem: that other nations lack a middle class into which the mass of the poor may bootstrap themselves, either within or between generations. Searching for a solution, they come to a place that basically started out entirely as middle-class smallholders: the United States.

We aren't going to solve our immigration problem. The solution is in Mexico and the rest of Latin America homegrowing a middle class. They need to lose the culture of corruption that is pretty much the retirement plan for minor officialdom -- I've no clear idea how many times this multiplies, in effect, the tax burden on the people and their economy, but multiply it it clearly does. They need to secure property rights from rapaciousness public or private, and they're not too good at that yet, witness Chavez's antics in Venezuela. He'll buy them a depression yet before he's ousted.

Large Landowners vs. Everybody Else There is no way to keep things, as land-reform revolutions demonstrate. Ownership of all descriptions must be generally spread around, not exclusively concentrated, and with it, the wealth. North America got this right; Latin America needs to.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I agree, Mexico and southward, grew out of the Spanish system of masters and peons. Every time they had a revolution, they ended up with a different master, rather than a changed system. It seems to be the nature of the people to accept masters until they become too cruel to suffer anymore.

It is NOT, however, our job to change things there, because it will just bite us in the ass again, as it has everywhere else.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

We aren't going to solve our immigration problem. The solution is in Mexico and the rest of Latin America homegrowing a middle class. They need to lose the culture of corruption that is pretty much the retirement plan for minor officialdom -- I've no clear idea how many times this multiplies, in effect, the tax burden on the people and their economy, but multiply it it clearly does. They need to secure property rights from rapaciousness public or private, and they're not too good at that yet,

I agree with a lot of this except the anti-socialization part but do you think the US has anything to do with this?

witness Chavez's antics in Venezuela. He'll buy them a depression yet before he's ousted.

Besides the dip in the early 2000's, Chavez has done decently well for Venezuela. They are in a slow but steady rise since the dip, which mainly had to do with oil prices.

Originally Posted by xoxoxbruce

It is NOT, however, our job to change things there, because it will just bite us in the ass again, as it has everywhere else.

I wouldn't say that. Just because all of our modern way of changing things in other countries has bitten us in the ass doesn't mean that if we do it right, it can't perform miracles. The biggest problem we've had is that we try to force other countries to our way of thinking and do to take matters into our own hands.

We can't forget how well the Marshall Plan did for European countries after WWII. There are ways of helping countries get out of poverty, but we just haven't been exercising them lately.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

snip~ I wouldn't say that. Just because all of our modern way of changing things in other countries has bitten us in the ass doesn't mean that if we do it right, it can't perform miracles. The biggest problem we've had is that we try to force other countries to our way of thinking and do to take matters into our own hands.

Yes, aiding will help many countries but unilaterally deciding another country has to change is pretty arrogant.

We can't forget how well the Marshall Plan did for European countries after WWII. There are ways of helping countries get out of poverty, but we just haven't been exercising them lately.

Well, the Marshall plan took the ashes of Europe and reconstructed it in our own image. Whether that was best for the people there is up for debate. Sure it made them economically successful but what was the social and cultural cost?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Sure it made them economically successful but what was the social and cultural cost?

Very expensive, as it has been for our social, health, and judicial systems.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Very expensive, as it has been for our social, health, and judicial systems.

What does that have to do with the Marshall Plan?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Sure it made them economically successful but what was the social and cultural cost?

No matter what they do their culture will most likely be lost. Its sad but it has happened to basically every first-world country that exists today.

[TheMercenary]

No truly effective comprehensive immigration reform bill passed in the 109th Congress because the entire immigration debate was saddled by proposals to enact a mass amnesty and reward those who have broken the law. Thus, the 109th Congress yet again missed an opportunity to pass an immigration reform agenda that will truly serve our national interest.

Last year, there were some gains in the enforcement arena. Congress authorized the construction of 700 miles of fencing along the southern border, the hiring of more law enforcement agents, and the creation of more detention space. In addition, Congress passed the REAL ID Act to improve the uniformity and integrity of driver's licenses issued throughout the United States. These were all reforms that FAIR advocated and fought for on Capitol Hill.

Unfortunately, while the passage of these measures suggests progress, it is entirely uncertain whether they will bear fruit. First, the funding for these reforms is by no means certain. For example, Congress only authorized about $1.2 billion needed for fencing, an amount proponents say will actually only build about 390 miles. Ongoing funding is also needed for the creation of detention space and the hiring and training of law enforcement agents. And, even if lawmakers are dedicated to funding these reforms, it will take at least a couple of years to see results. Finally, the incoming Congress and the election of many new members creates further uncertainty with respect to these enforcement reforms and any others on FAIR's agenda. Some members of Congress have publicly stated they intend to revisit immigration-related legislation passed in the 109th Congress (specifically the Secure Fence Act) and make adjustments where deemed necessary. This does not bode well for reformers who supported their passage in the first place.

In the area of legal immigration, the 109th Congress can claim no progress whatsoever. No action was taken on the urgent need to limit and roll back immigration, no action was taken to eliminate abuse in the refugee and asylum program, and an immense backlog still exists in processing immigration applications due to slow-moving background checks. Meanwhile, in the last waning hours of the session, Congress managed to pass special interest language extending three guest worker programs. These programs allow nurses, doctors, and certain skilled individuals to work in the United States and compete with U.S. workers.

In short, while the 109th Congress did not pass a comprehensive immigration reform package, a handful of smaller immigration-related measures passed via other bills. These measures were:


http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe..._reform_agenda

Lazy? That is why other nations are always coming to us with their hands out?
Yeah, WE are the lazy ones?
LMAO!!!!

[freshnesschronic]

Yeah it's been proven ducky that America is DEFINITELY the hardest working, overworked country in the world.

And, where were you guys when I was dueling her in the VT gun thread? The fudge was my American support?