Ode to the full service gas station

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

What if you drive contantly over speed bumps or hit potholes??? Both these things and many more can affect your alignment, and thust tire and brake wear.

Your many replies do not contradict what I posted. For example, take wheel alignment. If potholes, etc change alignment on a properly designed car, then bent parts must be replaced. Wheel alignment would only cure symptoms. You would, instead, align to bent parts? That dirty little secret is ignored by those who advocate wheel align every year. If potholes change wheel alignment on an engineer designed car, then bent parts must first be replaced. Of course, this means buying a patriotic vehicle (American or foreign manufacturer labels say nothing about patriotic).

My 1980 Accord did 107,000 miles on its original tires. It was never wheel aligned. Why did I learn this? I even began doing my own alignment after my GM product would eat tires and the repair shop left me doubtful. Eventually discovered why it ate tires every 40,000 miles (with help from some honest mechanics and what I then learned by owning a Honda). Alignment was not changing. How wheels attached to the vehicle was causing excessive tire wear. Only myth purveyors were, instead, blaming pot holes - a universal myth.

Defective designed cars did not bother to put mounting holes in the same place on every car. A 'cost controlled' designer solved that defect by, instead, installing adjusters. Cars designed by engineers now spend more money on better designs so that the hole is exact every time and so that the total vehicle cost is less. No adjuster means no variation; no movement due to potholes.

One need not be a car guy to learn facts. Those adjusters for camber and caster do not exist on a car manufactured by patriots. How do you know? Amazingly, even simple arithmetic ballpark identifies a patriotic vehicle. Horsepower divided by liters - an engine parameter - is often associated with vehicles that also don't need wheel alignment. The minimum number should be well known here by all.

Well this may be far too much Cloud. But facts remains, all that checking is necessary for defective vehicles. Properly designed vehicles require very little maintenance - and no repeated checking.

Tune up? Tune ups do not identify a defective rotor. However simple facts such as miles per gallon and engine knocking (noise) would tend to identify such problems. Also obvious would be fluid leaks where the car parks. There is no reason for any fluid leaking beneath any car.

Again, simple observations make all that checking irrelevant. Learning to perform the simplest of task - ie checking tire pressure - eventually means one only looks at the tire to know. Even a full service gas jockey typically could not tell.

Let's not forget another myth promoted by a lying company - Firestone - now called Bridgestone. Low tire pressure does not cause tire failure. Low tire pressure can aggravate a problem directly traceable to defectively designed tires. All those Explorer rollovers are directly traceable to a company that, instead, lied. And lied repeatedly while their defective design was killing people. Who did the exact same thing in the late 1970s (find referenced to Firestone 500). Low tire pressure did not cause tires to be missing one ply or to be glued defectively.

How many knew what caused Ford Explorer rollovers? How many knew that when Ford Motor finally discovered these Firestone (Bridgestone) lies, then Ford demanded Firestone withdrawal all ATX Wilderness tires. Firestone refused. So Ford - a more patriotic company - spent $2billion to replace Firestones 'defective by design' tires. Firestone did what any MBA dominated company would do.

To mask their lies, Firestone changed the brand names to Bridgestone. A point made so that you can decide to be patriotic: either avoid Bridgestone products or so hate humanity as to buy their products. They did in the 1990s what they also did to create Firestone paraplegics and quadriplegics in the late 1970s. Will doing repeated checks (also called inspection) avoid that which more often creates failures? Of course not. Any factory that has no quality also hase quality control inspectors. But then you might blame yourself for the failures rather than the MBA who intentionally created that failure.

These stories are not universally learned. These details are often found in later (back page) newspaper stories - the dirty little details with numbers that cause so many eyes to glaze over. Automotive maintenance is also about warnings for worst case conditions; assumes no one learns (from experience) how to see a low pressure tire.

One need only learn to look at tires - to identify in but a second the tire that needs air (or more likely has a nail because a properly inflated and designed tire remains properly inflated for years). One gains that experience by first taking simple numbers with a $3 pressure gauge. One learns from experience - which means the simplest of numbers and no glazed over eyes.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Cloud

oooh, it says to "check the constant velocity joint boots." No fucking clue.

It's simple. Best time to learn is when any car is up on a lift. If in doubt, ask someone to point it out. However a CV boot is even easy to identify by looking under the car. This shaft goes from engine to each wheel. Where a joint exists, a big black rubber boot wraps around the shaft. Any rubber part that is broken or cracked should be replaced. It’s that simple. A CV boot failure can be especially expensive if the joint is washed clean of grease. Rust and wear would require a few $hundred to replace.

Now we add another reality. This failure was most common among unpatriotic cars such as GM who would cost control those boots. That boot should never fail in the life of a car. And the responsible mechanic who changes oil should inspect that boot every time.

You require an oil change every 5000 miles or 3 months if you use the car every day. A better measure would be number of times you start the car. Instead we use a simpler number. That means something that should never fail - radiator leak, low oil, low transmission fluid, brake fluid, etc - is also quickly identified by the lube jockey. But again, is he honest or does he constantly test women to learn which ones can be fleeced?

As CR notes, most failures should be obvious by fluid leaks where car is parked. Every and any fluid leak is a complete failure coming later. CV boot failure - either you must drive over something that cuts that boot open or the manufacturer has made a defective part. Yes, the CV boot is inspected so that a rare defect costs massively less money. But that is why you don't buy high failure products designed by bean counters and why you have an honest mechanic who inspects all those things while replacing the oil.

Let's see. I even bought a grease pump to lube those bearings far more often than required. What did I learn? Bearings and links that had to be greased often also failed often. No matter how religiously I did the maintenance, those bearings failed because they were designed by cost controllers. When did bearing failure stop? When car guys designed the car meaning none of that maintenance was required.

There are some simple tasks to perform or have performed routinely. For example, you must make sure the coolant is changed every two years. Symptoms of not doing that? Four years later the heater does not work so good anymore. You must schedule and have oil and filter changed. Easily inspect the air filter every year or longer, or have it done. More frequent if the ranch is dusty. And, of course, have anything reported by the check engine light fixed. Despite what some ill trained mechanics claim, every check engine light indication means a failure exists - without doubt.

Many of these tasks such as tire pressure becomes obvious - requires no tire gauge - once you learn what to look for by using a tire gauge. And yes, inspecting the spare tire is also important. Push it - pressure should be obvious.

When using brakes, does wheel stay straight and no noise heard? It must on every car. Do you calculate MPG after each fillup - a most powerful tool to find defects long before it becomes a failure? Simple math even performed in the head if you do it routinely. When driving down a highway, does the steering wheel stay straight even when striking multiple tar expansion joints between concrete? Any properly designed car stays perfectly straight. IOW no wheel alignment was going to fix that new 1996 Pontiac designed by bean counters - that also demanded a $100 wheel alignment every year. These things are learned by doing - sometimes making mistakes - and then asking damn embarrassing questions. One embarrassing question - why do GM cars fail so often that even paint pealed off a five year old car? That also was a bean counter generated defect.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

One thing I'll add to Zens good info above, DO NOT put your trust in and risk your engine... on a 25 cent lightbulb on your dashboard.

If the 25 cent lightbulb is a problem, then a $0.10 LED should have been there. Reality - if the dashboard bulb failed, then question the manufacturer. And if the bulb has failed, well, that is why all bulbs light when car first starts.

Why not use an LED? Because that incandescent bulb does not / must not fail - and cost even less than 25 cents.

So why would oil be low? Did you ignore that oil spot where you park? Do you ignore the blue smoke and bad odor? With so many other reasons to see low oil, then we also have another indicator - an oil lamp. How many times does the car have to warn you of an impending failure?

Same applies to low tire pressure. One simply looks at the tire and at all other tires. Low tire pressure is obvious. And then if tires squeal when you round a turn, again, a defect exists. Look at the tires for low pressure.

Having said this, no solutions exist to a defective suspension on bean counter designed vehicles such as Jeeps. Those tires squeal even when turning into a parking spot at 3 MPH. No way around defectively designed vehicles. Low tire pressure should be obvious. Of course, one must learn to see it. But then we learn from experience - and ask damning questions.

Damming questions such as why do full service gas jockeys get paid so little? Insufficient knowledge even to check for low oil?

[classicman]

If you hit potholes or drive over speed bumps your alignment CAN BE affected.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by tw

Despite what some ill trained mechanics claim, every check engine light indication means a failure exists - without doubt.

Putting the gas cap on too loosely can cause the check engine light to come on. I suppose you could argue that putting a gas cap on incorrectly is a failure, but most people would probably disagree.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by tw

Having said this, no solutions exist to a defective suspension on bean counter designed vehicles such as Jeeps. Those tires squeal even when turning into a parking spot at 3 MPH.

You just described the difference between 4WD and AWD, and the bean counter is the customer who doesn't want to pay for an expensive AWD system that allows the wheels to be powered at uneven rates for tight cornering on dry surfaces.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

Putting the gas cap on too loosely can cause the check engine light to come on. I suppose you could argue that putting a gas cap on incorrectly is a failure, but most people would probably disagree.

So a check engine light is on. The mechanic says, "Ignore the light. It means nothing." Of course it means something. In that case, it meant the gas cap is loose or even missing.

Did that once. Forget to put that gas cap on after waiting fruitlessly for the gas attendant to come out (full service State). Heard the cap fall to the road. I was walking that highway when a State Trooper stopped me. He then found it. Troopers have better flashlights and better eyes. And a missing gas cap may also create other (and worse) failures. A missing gas cap is bad for multiple reasons.

Meanwhile, when the mechanic says the check engine light mean nothing, then find a mechanic with basic technical knowledge. Another lesson that others may learn from experience. Not just that the failure happened - but also why.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

If you hit potholes or drive over speed bumps your alignment CAN BE affected.

And the supporting facts that say why are what? Posts without such facts have the intellectual value of George Jr. How does that pothole affect alignment on a properly designed car (facts that were obviously required in classicman's blanket declaration)? You would declare a fact, in obvious contradiction, without a single 'why'? Only extremists do that. Why does that pothole affect alignment when facts, with reasons why, were posted to the contrary? Are we to believe classicman only because he says so? Where are these supporting facts?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by tw

Where are these supporting facts?

Here are five for you Tom - There are a few THOUSAND MORE.
If you care to, look them up yourself.

Don't Let Alignment Problems Get Your Truck Down

DRIVER ENERGY EFFICIENCY TIPS

Automotive Vehicle Safety

Tire Care and Maintenance

Information Bulletin - Spring Driving

Originally Posted by tw

Meanwhile, when the mechanic says the check engine light mean nothing, then find a mechanic with basic technical knowledge. Another lesson that others may learn from experience. Not just that the failure happened - but also why.

You missed the point here. The point was if a driver didn't notice the light bulb or LED was NOT operational, had burned out/broken.... for whatever reason. There would be no notification of a problem that needs to be addressed.

[Cloud]

uh. wow.

AAA is totally worth it.

[Shawnee123]

I can't imagine two other people who could argue so much over automobile maintenance.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Not so, Shawnee. Men have been debating maintenance of motor vehicles, and before that draught animals/wagons, since forever.
What did you think the guys were talking about in the garage all Saturday afternoon, girls?

I'm from the, there's no such thing as too much maintenance, school.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

I can't imagine two other people who could argue so much over automobile maintenance.

I was simply offering my help to cloud and got lambasted for it - since the first post I have been like WTF did I do?

[Rexmons]

Jersey only has "Full Service" stations... maybe they don't trust us with gas, i don't know but our definition of full service means a guy comes out and pumps your gas. thats it. the most i've ever seen them do is clean your windshield.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Not so, Shawnee. Men have been debating maintenance of motor vehicles, and before that draught animals/wagons, since forever.
What did you think the guys were talking about in the garage all Saturday afternoon, girls?

I'm from the, there's no such thing as too much maintenance, school.

Ah, yes. I stand corrected!

Originally Posted by classicman

I was simply offering my help to cloud and got lambasted for it - since the first post I have been like WTF did I do?

Just messin' with you, classic.