From a Chaplain who had served in Iraq

[Cicero]

Oh now I just saw how I've dishonored all the dead and living soldiers that someone knows because I called that a conditioned response.

Another conditioned response is to say that you have shat all over someone's valued memory when someone says something you don't agree with. That's low.

How does that grab you? Be pissed all you want. I haven't done a damb thing to dishonor you or the people you have known in the military.

Oh that's another thing:

In fact, I have actually helped, personally, one of the fellow soldiers you served with, in a variety of ways throughout the years. As he has helped me on several occasions as well. So. Stick it. The proof is in the pudding here.

Well, I have to admit, I did go a little far with his nick name a couple of times... I have always respected him and his military action. Despite the illness that it caused. You are talking to the wrong person about the "dishonor" of your fellow soldiers, and yourself. If I hadn't had personal interactions with one of them for several years it might be a little different. Wrong girl.

And another thing: I didn't honor him just because of his service in the military, he was good friend because he was honorable outside of the military. He was a good guy.

Hmmm...maybe I won't call him flatfoot anymore.

[Undertoad]

Thanks for your continued participation in the thread.

You were saying that they are conditioned to be "militant". You used the word "militant" several times.

When classic posted the dictionary definition of it, did the definition agree with your understanding of the word?

You are saying that the Marines' response to the event was uninteresting because it was a conditioned response. I find the response to be noble even if it is conditioned. Even if it is duty. Especially if it's military. I myself cannot recall having accepted any similar conditioning, in the name of duty, service, or any other thing. In that regard I find myself wanting, and extra thankful that there are people who actually enjoy that sort of conditioning in order to defend my sorry ass.

[Cicero]

I just saw regular's post which is why I just responded to it...And thank you for your continued participation in this thread as well.

[Undertoad]

Sorry for the in-process edit I'm not finished posting until five minutes after the post is made!

[lookout123]

I find your reaction to this very disappointing Cicero. You have every right to respond any way you want but I'm surprised at your condescension in this case. That theatre is made up of individuals who each chose to do something. You may not like the organization, the leadership, or even the very tradition they were observing, but to dismiss their actions as they were simply well trained dogs is just a bit too much.

[Cicero]

[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin mīlitāns, mīlitant-, present participle of mīlitāre, to serve as a soldier; see militate.]

A militant is a soldier. Which is where the word comes from. Soldiers. Or am I still full of it?

Yes I understand things.

Not so perfectly all the time, but enough. The origin was so cleverly left out of the first definition.

Thus, the head shake.

Militant militant militant...if it is so amusing to hear me say it..... I am not going to explain the word or myself anymore.



Of course, from an emotive standpoint what I said was seriously harsh. But no disrespect was meant, at all. Okay? There.

[regular.joe]

It was the Pavlov remark that really got me going. But then I guess you could tell.

Disrespect was taken, but now I'm letting it go....see?

I'm like the old monk guy walking with the young monk by the river. I set her down 10 miles ago.

[Undertoad]

So, to sum up, from a head shake, we were supposed to understand that classic had left out the word origins, which you were using as your definition instead of the definition currently in use.

I gotta tell ya, I'll admit it, I'm just not that intuitive.

Also, the Amazing Fucking Kreskin isn't that intuitive.

[Cicero]

I didn't have to use intuition to know the definition. And I usually take into account the origins of words when I am using a current definition. That's just me......I didn't have to look it up. I used no psychic ability when I used the word as I knew it. I am so sorry if it bothers you when I actually know the defintion of a word I am using.

You are just as capable as anyone else to look up a word. It isn't a psychic ability. It's prior knowledge, that can even be cross-checked by google.

Whatever. You thought someone throwing a definition at me, as a check, was sufficient. I knew differently.

Get over it.

I have a knee jerk reaction when someone throws definitions at me I already know, to be cocky, when the word itself is broader than their cut and paste jobby.

It was partly a joke about soldiers being militant. Because it was supposed to be redundant. I can not intuit what others know and what they don't.

Kind of like you.

[Treasenuak]

Okay, guys, settle down. We DO all realize the major issue here is one of misunderstanding rather than deliberate, malice-aforethought disrespect, right? I have to admit I was a bit put-off by Cicero's remark at first as well (no offense, Cic, just hear me out) but after the comment was explained, it made sense. Seems to me everyone's just jumping on everyone for a simple misunderstanding, and y'all need to take a deep breath, step back, and chill.

my two cents. For what it's worth.

[lookout123]

Election year cellar.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Election year cellar.

True words.

[DanaC]

I must admit, I wasn't happy with the Pavlov's dog comment. It suggests a mindlessness which I think is unfair to say the least. If you mean they are conditioned to respond in a particular way, well yes and no. I doubt they have an actual policy regarding how to return to an athem if it's been halted, but the army is a culture and those serving within it can be expected to respond in a manner appropriate to that culture. We are all culturally conditioned in many ways.

Why would soldiers in a desert, many miles from home, with their own internal culture and traditions, respond in the same way to an anthem, which for most us has little currency beyond its use in sports and national events?

On the word 'militant': I can see how the dictionary definition might give an unfair bent to Cicero's words, but frankly, I don;t see how it is not immediately apparent what the word's origins are, and how that makes it the appropriate word in this context. They are the military; they are by their choice to serve, and by their inculcation into a military culture, militant. The traditions that the military adhere to are necessarily 'militant', because they of the military.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Why would soldiers in a desert, many miles from home, with their own internal culture and traditions, respond in the same way to an anthem, which for most us has little currency beyond its use in sports and national events?

Because that is their culture. It's basically an insular feeling of camaraderie and superiority, especially when many miles from home.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Because that is their culture. It's basically an insular feeling of camaraderie and superiority, especially when many miles from home.

Exactly, so there's no reason to assume they'll react like one of us when we hear the national anthem. It means something different in that context, and to that internal culture.