Bush Commutes Sentences of Border Patrol Agents - Page 3

Radar · 01-21-2009, 10:27 AM

While I respect your desire to agree to disagree. I'm still interested in which parts you disagree with. From a legal standpoint I'm 100% correct. I'm also 100% in line with our founders. So this begs the question as to where exactly we disagree.

I will concede that neither of us is likely to change the mind of the other since we clearly have strong opinions on the matter.

I'd just like to know where actual disagreement lies.

Undertoad · 01-21-2009, 10:36 AM

You don't have to answer that, my Central PA homeboy (Harrisburg born and rasied)

dmg1969 · 01-21-2009, 11:34 AM

First...a quick shout out to Undertoad! I was born and raised in Enola and currently living in Perry County, but I work in the 'burg.

Now, Radar, I will state the various areas where we disagree.

First, your overall theme that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to enforce immigration because it's not in the Constitution. While that may be true, techincally, I urge you to contact your U.S. Senator, Representative and The President. Apparently, they disagree with you.

Second, you say it is not a matter of national security. I counter with asking you what happens when a terrorist enters the U.S through an open Mexican border with a suitcase nuke.

P.S. Mexico is tougher on people entering their country illegally from South America than we are.

Also, you say that it does nothing to affect our national sovereignty. Sovereign by definition means supreme power over a body politic and free from outside influence. How can we be a sovereign nation and not decide who enters its borders?

I agree that diversity is our strength. No arguement there. I am the grandchild of immigrants. I also agree that many Americans may take the freedoms we have for granted because we have not known the harsh life many immigrants have had.

I also agree that peaceful immigrants do not harm our nation. However, if we cannot control who comes into the country...how do we know they are peaceful. How many murders have been commited by illegals (I know you hate that term, but they are illegally in the country) only to have them flee back to Mexico? How many DUIs caused by drunk illegals without a license to drive kill Americans? It's in the news all the time.

I agree that immigrants offer ideas and new approaches to problems. However, I do not think we need to have a "free flow" of immigrants to have the same quality of people immigrating.

I think that learning the language (English) should be mandatory. I don't know how the fact thatwe are an English speaking nation does not make it the official language. Try going to most non-English speaking countries and try to get by without having at least a grasp of the language. We should not have to offer all of our services in Spanish or any other language. What's next, Portugese, French, German, Arabic, Hebrew, Ebonics?

I have no problem with people bringing their culture with them. However, does it make it OK by your standards for a man who follows Sharia Law to kill his daughter or wife because he says they did something to "dishonor" him or the family?

"A Mexican immigrant who sneaks across the border at night is no better or worse than German or Ukrainian immigrants who went to Ellis island." I disagree. The Mexican immigrant entered the country illegally. Those who came through Ellis Island did not.

I think those are all the points. You asked where we disagree. There you have it.

Radar · 01-21-2009, 12:28 PM

Thanks. Keep in mind that all federal laws pertaining to areas not enumerated in the Constitution are automatically void so no immigrant is violating a law when they cross without documentation or notification of the government, so they are not here illegally.

classicman · 01-21-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

Thanks. IN MY OPINION Keep in mind that all federal laws pertaining to areas not enumerated in the Constitution are automatically void so no immigrant is violating a law when they cross without documentation or notification of the government, so they are not here illegally.

fixed that for ya.

bluecuracao · 01-21-2009, 01:32 PM

Hmm.

Since Mexico is so tough on people entering illegally, wouldn’t that make it extra-hard for international terrorists to come from that direction? I suppose a terrorist could opt to lug a nuke across hundreds of miles of desert...or, he could just simply fly into an airport and pick it up from one of those big cargo containers no one ever checks. Or even easier, take a train from Canada with a duffel bag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmg1969

I also agree that peaceful immigrants do not harm our nation. However, if we cannot control who comes into the country...how do we know they are peaceful. How many murders have been commited by illegals (I know you hate that term, but they are illegally in the country) only to have them flee back to Mexico? How many DUIs caused by drunk illegals without a license to drive kill Americans? It’s in the news all the time.

How do we know, indeed. One day, in the future, we’ll be able to determine who are destined to become criminals...while they are still in the womb! muahahaha....

Anyway, incidents like this make the news, national news even, because they don’t occur very often. Especially relative to how often such crimes are committed by U.S. citizens. In my opinion, dmg, you are being an alarmist.

And do you really believe there should only be a certain “quality of people immigrating?” That didn’t happen at Ellis Island. It was pretty much a free-flow there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmg1969

I think that learning the language (English) should be mandatory. I don’t know how the fact thatwe are an English speaking nation does not make it the official language. Try going to most non-English speaking countries and try to get by without having at least a grasp of the language. We should not have to offer all of our services in Spanish or any other language. What’s next, Portugese, French, German, Arabic, Hebrew, Ebonics?

It may seem that way in Central PA, but fact is, we are not strictly an English-speaking nation. Spanish was the first widely-spoken European language in our land, and has remained common in many parts. Hundreds of Native languages were spoken before any immigrants arrived, and many still are today. However...learning English in the U.S. is already mandatory, non-officially. Immigrants know it, and they do it sooner or later. I realize some like you think it should be a law for some reason, but there’s no need. I suspect the reason may be that you are just not comfortable hearing a language you do not understand. Don’t worry, they probably aren’t talking smack about you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmg1969

I have no problem with people bringing their culture with them. However, does it make it OK by your standards for a man who follows Sharia Law to kill his daughter or wife because he says they did something to “dishonor” him or the family?

That’s a pretty extreme example to use. Are you sure you have no problem with cultures other than your own?

dmg1969 · 01-21-2009, 01:53 PM

Yes, blue. I am an alarmist and afraid of other languages and cultures. You caught me!

Shawnee123 · 01-21-2009, 01:56 PM

That's a good argument dmg. You argue like someone else around here.

dmg1969 · 01-21-2009, 02:07 PM

No, I seriously appreciate the psychoanalysis. I wasn't even aware. I might even be a rascist and not know it!

Shawnee123 · 01-21-2009, 02:18 PM

Silly wabbit.

dar512 · 01-21-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmg1969

No, I seriously appreciate the psychoanalysis. I wasn't even aware. I might even be a rascist and not know it!

There's a story somewhere around here about a guy who was a lesbian and didn't know it.

dar512 · 01-21-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

In my opinion I fixed that for ya.

In my opinion this is unnecessary.

Shawnee123 · 01-21-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

In my opinion this is unnecessary.

:

Baby...you're the greatest! :p

dmg1969 · 01-21-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

There's a story somewhere around here about a guy who was a lesbian and didn't know it.

You know...I've long suspected I might be one. I find myself looking at women, have unpure thoughts and even experimented once.

Shawnee123 · 01-21-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

There's a story somewhere around here about a guy who was a lesbian and didn't know it.

"If I was a girl I'd be a slut. A lesbian slut."

--Bubba (Tim Blake Nelson) in The Good Girl

01-21-2009, 10:27 AM	#31
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	While I respect your desire to agree to disagree. I'm still interested in which parts you disagree with. From a legal standpoint I'm 100% correct. I'm also 100% in line with our founders. So this begs the question as to where exactly we disagree. I will concede that neither of us is likely to change the mind of the other since we clearly have strong opinions on the matter. I'd just like to know where actual disagreement lies. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-21-2009, 12:28 PM	#34
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Thanks. Keep in mind that all federal laws pertaining to areas not enumerated in the Constitution are automatically void so no immigrant is violating a law when they cross without documentation or notification of the government, so they are not here illegally. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-21-2009, 01:56 PM	#38
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	That's a good argument dmg. You argue like someone else around here. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

01-21-2009, 02:18 PM	#40
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Silly wabbit. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

01-21-2009, 10:36 AM	#32
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	You don't have to answer that, my Central PA homeboy (Harrisburg born and rasied)

01-21-2009, 11:34 AM	#33
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	First...a quick shout out to Undertoad! I was born and raised in Enola and currently living in Perry County, but I work in the 'burg. Now, Radar, I will state the various areas where we disagree. First, your overall theme that the Federal Government doesn't have the authority to enforce immigration because it's not in the Constitution. While that may be true, techincally, I urge you to contact your U.S. Senator, Representative and The President. Apparently, they disagree with you. Second, you say it is not a matter of national security. I counter with asking you what happens when a terrorist enters the U.S through an open Mexican border with a suitcase nuke. P.S. Mexico is tougher on people entering their country illegally from South America than we are. Also, you say that it does nothing to affect our national sovereignty. Sovereign by definition means supreme power over a body politic and free from outside influence. How can we be a sovereign nation and not decide who enters its borders? I agree that diversity is our strength. No arguement there. I am the grandchild of immigrants. I also agree that many Americans may take the freedoms we have for granted because we have not known the harsh life many immigrants have had. I also agree that peaceful immigrants do not harm our nation. However, if we cannot control who comes into the country...how do we know they are peaceful. How many murders have been commited by illegals (I know you hate that term, but they are illegally in the country) only to have them flee back to Mexico? How many DUIs caused by drunk illegals without a license to drive kill Americans? It's in the news all the time. I agree that immigrants offer ideas and new approaches to problems. However, I do not think we need to have a "free flow" of immigrants to have the same quality of people immigrating. I think that learning the language (English) should be mandatory. I don't know how the fact thatwe are an English speaking nation does not make it the official language. Try going to most non-English speaking countries and try to get by without having at least a grasp of the language. We should not have to offer all of our services in Spanish or any other language. What's next, Portugese, French, German, Arabic, Hebrew, Ebonics? I have no problem with people bringing their culture with them. However, does it make it OK by your standards for a man who follows Sharia Law to kill his daughter or wife because he says they did something to "dishonor" him or the family? "A Mexican immigrant who sneaks across the border at night is no better or worse than German or Ukrainian immigrants who went to Ellis island." I disagree. The Mexican immigrant entered the country illegally. Those who came through Ellis Island did not. I think those are all the points. You asked where we disagree. There you have it.

01-21-2009, 01:53 PM	#37
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	Yes, blue. I am an alarmist and afraid of other languages and cultures. You caught me!

01-21-2009, 02:07 PM	#39
dmg1969 I got nothing Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Central PA Posts: 486	No, I seriously appreciate the psychoanalysis. I wasn't even aware. I might even be a rascist and not know it!

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