Phillipine withdrawal

[elSicomoro]

Sightseeing.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Right, R & R. Doesn't sound smart, to me. It didn't to the Marine that told me, either.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Right, R & R. Doesn't sound smart, to me. It didn't to the Marine that told me, either.

Are they going there to "take care of business" off the record? That's certainly what it sounds like to me, anyway.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No Beestie, definitely not organized. Just guys on their off time looking for entertainment.

[wolf]

Although I know what this thread is about, for some reason I keep expecting there to be detailed instructions for some new, exotic sexual technique.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Well, it is about a good screwing.

[richlevy]

I just heard a Filipino-American commentator on Fox "fair and balanced" lashing out at the Philippines. She recommended sanctions including immigration quotas, even though she admitted that it would affect her own family.

I don't believe in appeasing terrorists. However, a country is responsible for it's citizens. The Phillipines made a decision that participation in Iraq was not worth it. They also made a decision that they were lied to about the reasons for the war, which is correct.

The US made a similar decision in Vietnam, which is why there are 58,000 names on a wall instead of 100,000.

The US-Phillipines relationship has always been complex. We are their savior and conqueror. We free them from the Japanese, but propped up brutal dictators. We have recently lost troops there fighting rebels/terrorsits.

Bottom line - They are a sovereign nation. Bush is not their president. They get to make their own choices and mistakes. God knows, we have made ours.

On a related note, in order to verify the number (I thought it was 56,000), I went to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund web site.

Here are all of the men named Levy who died in Vietnam.

BRUCE LEVY PFC ARMY ELMHURST NY 4/11/1947 - 5/18/1968

GERALD LEVY SP5 ARMY MERIDEN CT 5/1/1945 - 1/2/1966

NORMAN STANLEY LEVY LCDR NAVY FOREST HILLS NY 4/21/1935 - 10/26/1966
WALTER NEVILLE LEVY 2LT MARINE CORPS NEW YORK NY 11/10/1938 - 9/18/1965
WILLIAM LEVY JR WILBURN SP5 ARMY MEMPHIS TN 5/9/1947 - 1/15/1969

Here are all of the men and women named Bush who died in Vietnam


CECIL FLOYD BUSH EM1 NAVY BOGALUSA LA 7/20/1933 - 2/27/1969

EDWARD L BUSH WO ARMY WICHITA KS 3/12/1943 - 3/20/1967

ELBERT WAYNE BUSH SSGT ARMY JACKSON MS 10/13/1946 - 1/8/1973

FRANK KENNETH BUSH LCPL MARINE CORPS YORK PA 1/12/1951 - 5/14/1970

GILBERT BYRON BUSH 2LT ARMY LARAMIE WY 1/17/1941 - 5/8/1966

JAMES BUSH SFC ARMY TALLADEGA AL 9/14/1941 - 5/1/1970

JAMES EDWARD BUSH SP4 ARMY LEBANON TN 6/20/1945 - 3/4/1966

JAMES HOWARD JR BUSH PFC MARINE CORPS GUYTON GA 9/14/1948 - 12/18/1967

JOHN ROBERT BUSH CAPT AIR FORCE FT WALTON BEACH FL 5/17/1943 - 7/24/1968

JOSEPH KERR JR BUSH CAPT ARMY TEMPLE TX 1/28/1944 - 2/10/1969

LEE RANDALL BUSH PFC ARMY LANSING MI 9/2/1947 - 6/6/1968

MARK JOEL BUSH SGT ARMY ANAHEIM CA 5/18/1950 - 6/22/1970

MILTON JACKSON BUSH SGT AIR FORCE BARNESVILLE GA 4/8/1947 - 5/18/1969

NATHANIEL BUSH PFC ARMY BALTIMORE MD 3/16/1947 - 10/2/1969

OTIS LEE BUSH PFC MARINE CORPS ORLANDO FL 9/18/1948 - 9/23/1967

PAUL WILLIAM BUSH 1LT MARINE CORPS GREENVILLE PA 7/8/1944 - 3/22/1968

PEARL BUSH SSGT ARMY LITTLE KY 12/30/1937 - 5/11/1968

ROBERT EDWARD BUSH LTC AIR FORCE HAMDEN CT 10/4/1928 - 3/24/1966

ROBERT IRA BUSH CAPT AIR FORCE RACINE WI 6/8/1938 - 6/9/1966

STEVEN CLARENCE BUSH CPL ARMY GRUBVILLE MO 7/13/1948 - 6/3/1968

THOMAS BURKE BUSH SP4 ARMY TULSA OK 1/10/1947 - 8/30/1968

THOMAS EDWARD BUSH PFC MARINE CORPS BILLERICA MA 8/10/1948 - 11/21/1968

Obviously, these men were no relation to "old yellow-belly" now residing in the White House.

[Griff]

I saw a great cartoon which I couldn't track down on the net. Bush and Kerry are debating their war records on tv. Kerry:It's pacifists like me that fought that war! Bush:It's shirkers like me that supported the war at home! Two guys watching tv- Guy1: My head hurts. Guy2: I like them both!

[smoothmoniker]

Rich, my point is this. The Philippine decision should have nothing to do with their relationship to the US. It should have nothing to do with their motivations for entering the conflict, or their reservations about continuing.

The instant that someone captures one of you citizens and makes a demand, any acquiescence to that demands puts all of your citizens at risk. I agree that they have a responsibility to their own citizenry. The Philippines are home to a growing, and increasingly militant, Islamic community whose stated goal is to make the country an Islamic Theocracy. They have now effectively demonstrated that terror against their citizens is an effective method for altering their actions. That can’t be a good message to send back home.

And don’t believe for a moment that the “good graces” of Al Queda will follow them home. The Pan-Islamic movement doesn’t want friends and allies, they want a world empire.

-sm

I think the Philippine government has to walk a bit of a tight-rope, since they do have a significant Muslim minority among their own people. It is debatable whether pulling their 51 guys out of the Mid East was an appropriate response to terrorist tactics. However, I think its important to realize that these were Iraqui terrorists and not Philippino ones. The Philippines may be as disgusted by our actions in Iraq as the rest of our allies and siezed upon this incident as a pretext for withdrawing their men.

I might also add that it is only a vern small minority of Muslims who are bent on world domination. Its important to be aware of this and not tar every member of the Muslim faith with the same brush.

[smoothmoniker]

mari- I'm talking specifically about those muslims who ARE Pan-Islamists. There are a significant number of them living in the Phillipines. Some of them are millitant. And an even larger number are silently concurring, believing that it is a central tennet of the Muslim faith.

-sm

[jaguar]

SM, from what I follow the hardline Islamic movementin the Phillipines is shrinking, not growing, they also have been under contastant military attack by the US and the phillipine army. Increasingly militant? They've been waging a sepratist war for decades, how much more militant can you get?

[wolf]

Just guessing, but the Filipino commentator that Rich is talking about is probably Michelle Malkin.. She frequently talks about tightening immigration standards and patrolling the borders.

[Undertoad]

Belmont Club points (via Malkin, coincidentally) to an article in the Philippines Daily Tribune which reports that the Philippines has paid an Iraqi terrorist gang US$6 million dollars for the release of hostage Angelo de la Cruz.

A ransom of $6 million was offered and paid out to the Iraqi rebels holding Filipino truck driver Angelo de la Cruz hostage, to ensure his release before President Arroyo's scheduled State of the Nation Address (Sona) on July 26, a high level Philippine intelligence officer told the Tribune yesterday. This offer was alleged to have been approved by the President herself, who then tapped Malaysian emissaries for the job, the intelligence officer, who asked for anonymity, said. Of the $6-million payoff, $5 million was shouldered by Malaysia and $1 million by the Landbank of the Philippines, the officer added.

Wretchard explains why that's BAD:

Operationally these ransom payments are actually cash infusions into terrorist coffers and the "matching funds" are probably a kind of disguised contribution by certain Malaysian and Libyan sympathizers to the cause. However that may be, the scale of the ransom reported by the Philippines Daily Tribune can be gauged by comparison to the World Trade Center attacks which cost Osama Bin Laden half a million dollars. The "ransom" paid by the Philippine Government is twelve times that amount and will kill dozens of Americans and Iraqis before it is expended. Six million dollars buys a lot of IEDs.