Has our intelligence dropped to zero already?

[Troubleshooter]

Things are only going to get much worse before they get better.

[OnyxCougar]

From Fox News, April 7, 2005:

WINCHESTER, Ky. — Police in Winchester, Ky., say Winston Poole would have been the nation's next school shooter, had they not intervened.

"All the bells and whistles went off on this case," said Steven Caudill, a detective with the Winchester Police Department. "Our No. 1 goal is crime prevention and law enforcement, not just here in our community. But the nation as a whole. All the warning signs were here in our community. We saw it. We acted on it."

Poole, 18, has been charged with terroristic threatening for allegedly trying to recruit fellow students he called "soldiers" to participate in a school shooting (search). His grandmother turned him in after finding his journal.

"He was talking about taking over the high school and when it was all done, that everybody would be laying" on the ground, said Poole's grandmother, Joyce Craft. "You have to stop and think that these things can happen. If somebody sees it coming, or has some suspicions, then they need to report it. I could not let this go by."

Police said Poole is a legitimate threat and they read excerpts from his journal to show just that at his preliminary court hearing.

"They yelled, 'kill them.' All the soldiers of Zone 2 started shooting. They are dropping all of them. Then after five minutes, all the people are laying on the ground, dead," Poole wrote in his journal.

Poole's lawyer said the journal was a school assignment, that Poole is passionate about horror films and that he was writing about zombies. But police said Poole didn't have a writing assignment for English class.

"The evidence has already shown publicly that this was far from any story," Caudill said. "All the evidence we seized in this case never indicated anything to indicate this was a story about zombies."

Supporters said it's not a crime to write about violence, as long as you don't act on it. A group of California First Amendment (search) supporters — unwilling to be identified — freed Poole temporarily by paying his bond.

"It was just a fiction story and everybody is just blowing it out of proportion," said Poole's friend, Anthony Rudolph.

Poole's plight has become a cause celebre on the Internet for the First Amendment movement. A Google Web search for "William Poole Winchester" nets more than 160,000 results, including a "Free William Poole" petition that says famous authors would be locked away if writing about terrorism (search) was a crime.

Poole has landed back in jail, where he's awaiting trial for showing up at an elementary school in violation of a school order. Police say the community is safer with Poole locked up. But the teen's supporters say it's dangerous to muzzle speech, regardless whether it's fact or fiction.

[glatt]

Poole, 18, has been charged with terroristic threatening for allegedly trying to recruit fellow students he called "soldiers" to participate in a school shooting (search). His grandmother turned him in after finding his journal.

These damn articles are so short on the details. This is the first I've heard that he was trying to recruit others. I wish I knew the details around that. Was he just writing about his hopes of recruiting others or did he actually approach others and speak to them about his plot to murder fellow students? Huge difference.

With the lack of details here, I think it's right to err on the side of the grandparents who turned him in. They know him best, and they turned him in to the cops. They must have had a good reason.

[russotto]

This is from Fox "We make Pravda look accurate" News. Anyway, it's not illegal to fantasize about killing everyone in school, nor even to write about it. Ask Joss Whedon...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Has our intelligence dropped to zero already?

Of course not, silly. Just the average has.

[wolf]

It's back where it was. At least it looks that way. They re-normed the test.

[BigV]

So, see, now our FEAR of 5 year old kindergarten girls has escalated to the level of CALLING THE F*CKING COPS AND HAVING HER HANDCUFFED????

yeah. somebody's intelligence is zero, fuckin A.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne...nG=Search+News

http://www.wpbfnews.com/news/4407473/detail.html

(sorry AP--whole story with credit)

Video Captures Police Handcuffing 5-Year-Old Girl

POSTED: 3:12 pm EDT April 22, 2005
UPDATED: 5:44 pm EDT April 22, 2005

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- An attorney says he plans legal action against St. Petersburg police officers who handcuffed an unruly 5-year-old girl after she acted up in her kindergarten class.

Girl Handcuffed By Police

Three police officers handcuffed a 5-year-old girl after she acted out in her kindergarten class.

A video camera was rolling March 14 as part of a classroom self-improvement exercise. The camera captured images of the girl tearing papers off a bulletin board, climbing on a table and punching an assistant principal before police were called to Fairmount Park Elementary.

Then it shows the child appearing to calm down before three officers approach, pin her arms behind her back and put on handcuffs as she screamed, "No!"

Largo lawyer John Trevena let the news media see the tape this week after he got it from police.

The attorney said it's incomprehensible that the police officers would bend a child over a table and forcibly handcuff her.

Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[BigV]

Ok, I had a couple of deep breaths, kicked the cat, really, I'm fine.

Question: Where are the adults in this situation? I've been around my share of childhood tantrums. Hell, I've BEEN the child in those tantrums. I'm just askin, why do we need to call the cops and have the little girl put in handcuffs? *the urge to shout is building strongly again*******

Why? Why is force our only answer? Hey, did you always get what you deserved, from the powers that be? Maybe you got more than what you deserved, like this little girl's getting in spades. That is fucked up in every possible way..

What will the officer say? She was a physical threat to me? She was a danger to others in the area? It was for her own protection?

Goddammit. I gotta sign off now. I'm gonna blow.

[BigV]

Oh my God.

Look, I know that a webpoll is worth only 10% of what you paid for it, but WTF?????

[Undertoad]

At least they didn't tazer her.

[busterb]

Anyone see the poor under feed? laywer?

[richlevy]

Here is a link to the classroom where the tantrum started and here is a link to the assistant principal's office where she was arrested.

It appears that they already cleared the classroom when the incident started. I'm not a professional, but something appears to me to be wrong with the girl. This seemed to me to go beyond simple 'bad behavior'.

[OnyxCougar]

If you listen, when the cops show up, he says,

"Do you remember me? I'm the one your mom told to put handcuffs on you."

And they did.

I think that teacher needs a raise. And I think Jyeesha (or however you spell it) is a special ed student.

[wolf]

Amazing. I agree that the teacher needs a raise.

I think the school district needs to look over it's behavioral control policy.

From the scene in the classroom I started to gather that the teacher was NOT allowed to touch the kid. This was confirmed by some of the commentary during the scene in the principal's office. I expect that since they have her on video tape grabbing the kid, even though it was to protect her, she'll get some kind of official reprimand somewhere along the line.

I would have had the little beast in a baskethold before she could spit. Heck, I do that to full grown out of control nuts when necessary. Kids are a piece of cake, although they do tend to be more squirmy.

And yes, I have had to do this with kids. Usually not that young, though.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by richlevy

--snip--
It appears that they already cleared the classroom when the incident started. I'm not a professional, but something appears to me to be wrong with the girl. This seemed to me to go beyond simple 'bad behavior'.

NO. The incident must have started when the class was full, and the two video clips I saw were both in the vice principal's office. The substitue/teacher in training couldn't handle the situation with the little girl, she was sent to the vice principal's office.

Bad behavior? Yes. But the girl is FIVE YEARS OLD. Who is the adult here? When you send your child to kindergarten, don't you expect the teachers and the administrators (or the nurse or the librarian or the gym teacher or the school secretary or somebody) to have had some experience with little kids? How to soothe a kid that's having a tantrum?

I have a young child. I asked him how he felt when he was sent to the principal's office. His answer: scared. That sounds about right. Try to think of it from the five year old's point of view. You have no power. Things don't go your way. Mommy's gonna be mad. Hell yeah you're scared.

Now that bad behavior, that acting out, that "hitting" the principal, that's not good. It's not good for the girl, the adults, or anyone else around. But how can that behavior stop? By definition, the kid's lost control at that moment. Who does the responsibility for control fall to then. Come on, think. I bet you can get this one right. Yeah. The adult.

Remember when your young'uns were colicky, inconsolable? Hey, some power struggle over something in which you were completely right and the kiddie was completely wrong. Like this classroom situation. When you and child had this conflict, how did you settle it? How would you de-escalate the situation? Could you try distraction? Persuasion? Calming words? When the kid's scared, you know they're not at their most malleable or reasonable. How do you get them to do what you want? You have to soothe the fears, duh. I didn't see much of that in these two videos.

For that I fault the adults.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

If you listen, when the cops show up, he says,

"Do you remember me? I'm the one your mom told to put handcuffs on you."

Wrong.

The male cop says to the vice principal:

"I see you took my advice."

The camera is on Jaieesha, she is sitting quietly at the table. The male cop says to her:

"Jaieesha. You have to calm down and you have to do it right now. Ok? Remember me? I'm the one you told your mom put the handcuffs on you. Aight."

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

And they did.

Yep. And leg restraints (shackles). And she was put in the back of the squad car.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I think that teacher needs a raise. And I think Jyeesha (or however you spell it) is a special ed student.

Really? Explain these wild statements. I love a good fantasy story.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I think that teacher needs a raise. And I think Jyeesha (or however you spell it) is a special ed student.

Originally Posted by wolf

Amazing. I agree that the teacher needs a raise.

I am amazed that you would consider rewarding such incompetence with a raise. Did she do her job? Did she control the situation? Shit. Did she teach anybody anything? A raise?! phbtbbtbbtbtbt.

Originally Posted by wolf

I think the school district needs to look over it's behavioral control policy.

Damn straight. Because if the existing policy is to CALL THE POLICE AND HAVE THEM ARREST, HANDCUFF AND SHACKLE FIVE YEAR OLD GIRLS who have tantrums, the policy, and I'm being generous here, is b-r-o-k-e-n.

Hey OC, your sig talks about personal responsibility.

"Up to a point a man's life is shaped by environment, heredity, and movements and changes in the world about him. Then there comes a time when it lies within his grasp to shape the clay of his life into the sort of thing he wishes to be. Only the weak blame parents, their race, their times, lack of good fortune, or the quirks of fate. Everyone has it within his power to say, 'This I am today, that I will be tomorrow' "
- Louis L'Amour

Would you say that that point in a person's life when the dominant shaping forces change from environmental factors to internal factors is near five years old? Maybe teenagers? Fully growed adults, though, for sure, right? But all parties surrender their self responsibility. And of all them, only the little girl can be excused. Actually, the cops don't shirk their responsibility. But their reaction is utterly over the top. Did you see that part where the girl's sitting at the table and the cop tells her to settle down and do it right now? Ok, achieved. Where's the reason to cuff her?

*crickets chirping* *sound of pin dropping* *deafening silence*

Right. I thought so. There is no reason, no good reasonable reason.

But the spokesman for the police department , Bill Profit, agrees with you:

Bill Profit:
"There is no minimum age for criminal culpability."

News flash! A five year old is NOT criminally culpable for a tantrum in class like this. He's toeing the company line, sure, but I want people in these positions, and in postions like the officers, to use judgement, not just dogma.

Remember that 911 call from the moron in the drive through? That dispatcher, SHE exercised some adult judgement to not dispatch the cops to enforce a cheeseburger. Her humor and intelligence prevail. Why was that absent here?

This is wrong wrong wrong. When there's a problem with my kid in class, he may have to go to the principal's office. This little girl did. When my kid's having a problem at school, call me. The school did. When my kid's freakin out, calm him down. There were a couple of false starts here, but not sustained.

But when my five year old child is in this kind of awful situation, do not call the cops. Don't arrest him. Don't handcuff him. Don't shackle him. Don't park him in the back of the squad car. Don't do these things and expect to have your job on the following Monday, because if you do, your galactic fucking incompetence endangers ALL the children you're around. You're a failure and a menace. Get out of my face and get out of my school