Evolution’s Backers in Kansas Start Counterattack - Page 4

Stormieweather · 08-03-2006, 01:00 AM

Here's a really fun site sorts of scientific and historical contradictions from the Bible (as well as other religious books). http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html

I get a kick out of using this information to question people who try to take the Bible literally and argue it as fact.

Stormie

Pangloss62 · 08-03-2006, 07:58 AM

But why, Stormi, if you try to point those contradictions out to a believer, they refuse to acknowlege them or retreat to some convoluted, faith-based explanation?

As with my mother, you just can't win. One cannot use rationality or reason when discussing the world with the faith-based crowd. I try to explain contradictions in the bible only for myself; because I don't have to.

Kitsune · 08-03-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

But why, Stormi, if you try to point those contradictions out to a believer, they refuse to acknowlege them or retreat to some convoluted, faith-based explanation?

This is, I think, what makes this debate so difficult. It is job of those that work in the sciences to review each other, find flaws, and discount theories. They are often wrong and it is part of their job to accept it.

Those who deal with faith-based theories are never wrong and cannot be.

Stormieweather · 08-03-2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangloss62

But why, Stormi, if you try to point those contradictions out to a believer, they refuse to acknowlege them or retreat to some convoluted, faith-based explanation?

As with my mother, you just can't win. One cannot use rationality or reason when discussing the world with the faith-based crowd. I try to explain contradictions in the bible only for myself; because I don't have to.

For entertainment purposes only

. I never try to earnestly convince or reason with my mom or others like her...but it does help keep her/their sermons to a minimum.

Stormie

Pangloss62 · 08-03-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

I never try to earnestly convince or reason with my mom or others like her...

But there are times when she says very bigoted things about gays, and in the last few years she's even become a bit anti-semitic, and I feel I should argue with her out of principle. She's a Polish Catholic, and I think some of her anti-semitism might relate to that fact. I know I'm gonna be conflicted when her "time" comes; and that will be soon since she's 84.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-03-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitsune

This is, I think, what makes this debate so difficult. ~snip

I'd make that, debate impossible. There can be no debate when one side is debating and the other side preaching.

And, they're preaching literal acceptance of a text written 60 to 90 years, minimum, after the alleged incidents.... by people that told us the world was flat.

Criminologists have proven, that eye witness accounts are not all that reliable, by comparing them to surveillance videos. How can handed down oral histories be more accurate than eye witnesses?

Oh, I forgot, the authors (and translators), were guided by the hand of God....case closed.

08-03-2006, 08:26 PM

Evolution opponents suffer setback
Skeptics lose majority of Kansas Board of Education

Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Posted: 9:21 a.m. EDT (13:21 GMT)

Kansas
GOP
or Create Your Own
TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- Conservative Republicans who pushed anti-evolution standards back into Kansas schools last year have lost control of the state Board of Education once again.

The most closely watched race was in western Kansas, where incumbent conservative Connie Morris lost her GOP primary Tuesday. The former teacher had described evolution as "an age-old fairy tale" and "a nice bedtime story" unsupported by science.

As a result of Tuesday's vote, board members and candidates who believe evolution is well-supported by evidence will have a 6-4 majority. Evolution skeptics had entered the election with a 6-4 majority.

Critics of Kansas' science standards worried that if conservatives retained the board's majority, it would lead to attempts in other states to copy the Kansas standards.

"There are people around the country who would like to see the Kansas standards in their own states," said Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education in Oakland, California, which supports the teaching of evolution.

Also Tuesday, Kansas Republicans chose a nominee to challenge Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius in November. With 96 percent of the state's precincts reporting, state Sen. Jim Barnett captured his party's nomination with 36 percent of the vote, besting six other candidates.

Control of the school board has slipped into, out of and back into conservative Republicans' hands since 1998, resulting in anti-evolution standards in 1999, evolution-friendly ones in 2001 and anti-evolution ones again last year.

Late-night comedians have been making cracks about Kansas, portraying it as backward and ignorant. Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" broadcast a four-part series titled, "Evolution Schmevolution."

A wider intelligent design movement
The school board contest was part of a larger effort by the intelligent design movement to introduce its ideas in public schools.

A suburban Atlanta school district is locked in a legal dispute over its putting stickers in 35,000 biology textbooks declaring evolution "a theory, not a fact."

Last year, in Dover, Pennsylvania, voters ousted school board members who had required the biology curriculum to include mention of intelligent design. A federal judge struck down the policy, declaring intelligent design is religion in disguise.

A poll by six news organizations last year suggested about half of Kansans thought evolution should be taught alongside intelligent design.

Proponents of Kansas' latest standards contend they encourage open discussion.

"Students need to have an accurate assessment of the state of the facts in regard to Darwin's theory," said John West, a vice president for the Center for Science and Culture at the Seattle-based, anti-evolution Discovery Institute.

The standards say that the evolutionary theory that all life had a common origin has been challenged by fossils and molecular biology. And they say there is controversy over whether changes over time in one species can lead to a new species.

Three incumbent conservatives faced primary foes Tuesday, and there was a contested GOP race for the seat held by a retiring conservative. A pro-evolution Democratic incumbent also had a challenger.

With almost all the votes counted early Wednesday, pro-evolution Republican Jana Shaver picked off a conservative incumbent and won the primary for the open seat.

Conservative Republican John Bacon kept his seat by besting two pro-evolution challengers, as did another conservative incumbent, Ken Willard. Janet Waugh, a Kansas City Democrat who opposed the new standards, easily defeated a more conservative Democrat who favored the anti-evolution language.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Griff · 08-03-2006, 08:34 PM

We don't vote for a state board of ed in PA or NY. How common is it nation-wide? Do you like/dislike it?

08-03-2006, 08:40 PM

The farther removed from the county the power structure is the more I dislike it.

Hippikos · 08-04-2006, 05:03 AM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. (Groucho Marx)

Elspode · 08-07-2006, 10:02 PM

I live in the KC Metro area. I work in Kansas City, Kansas. I am unhappy as hell that these Right Wing idiots are shoving this tripe into the public education system.

They're going to save our souls whether we want them to or not.

tw · 08-08-2006, 12:48 AM

Appreciate why so many Americans are dropping in science and math literacy. A recent study of education in America found that private schools are not doing as well as public schools. And that largest, most obvious drop is the math skills of evangelical school students.

So I decided to see what is taught in a Christian College. No math abilities is made woefully obvious. Some examples:
Northwest Christian college
http://www.nwcc.edu/programs/majors.html:
Bible & Christian Ministry Studies
Bible & Theology
Biblical Studies
Christian Theology
Christian Ministries
Missions/Global Ministries
Pastoral Ministry
Youth Ministry
Business Administration
Communication
Exercise Science
Journalism
Speech Communication
Computer and Information Science (CIS)
General Studies
Global Studies
Human Services
Humanities
Interdisciplinary Studies (Individualized)
Music
Pre-Professional Health Sciences
Psychology
Social Sciences
Teacher Education

http://www.occ.edu/Academics/OCC.Degrees.aspx
Ozark Christian College
Bachelor of Theology(5-yearDegree)
Majors include: Preaching, Ministry, Christian Education, Old Testament, New Testament, Missions, Music
Bachelor of Christian Ministry (4-year degree)
Specializations include: Adult Discipleship, Ministry, Campus Ministry, Child Care Ministry, Children’s Ministry, Church Planting Ministry, Cross-Cultural Family Ministry, Preaching Ministry, Student Ministry, TESOL Ministry, Women’s Ministry, Double Major in Bible and Psychology, Double Major in Bible and Missions, Double Major in Bible and Deaf Ministry
Bachelor of Music and Ministry (4-year degree)
Bachelor of Music and Worship (4-year degree)
Bachelor of Bible and Ministry (2-year degree, requires previously earned bachelor’s degree)
Bachelor of Bible and Missions (2-year degree, requires previously earned bachelor’s degree)
Associate

Dallas Christian College
http://www.dallas.edu/Degrees/degrees.htm
BS-BIBLE AND GENERAL STUDIES
BA-BIBLE AND GENERAL STUDIES
BS-BIBLE & PSYCHOLOGY
BA-BIBLE & PSYCHOLOGY
BS-BIBLE & PREACHING
BA-BIBLE & PREACHING
BA-BIBLE & YOUTH FAMILY MINISTRY
BS-BIBLE & YOUTH FAMILY MINISTRY
BS-BIBLE & CROSS CULTURAL MISSIONS
BA-BIBLE & CROSS CULTURAL MISSIONS
BS-BIBLE & CHRISTIAN EDUCATION
BA-BIBLE & CHRISTIAN EDUCATION
BS-BIBLE & MUSIC MINISTRY
BA-BIBLE & WORSHIP AND YOUTH MINISTRY
BS-BIBLE & WORSHIP AND YOUTH MINISTRY
BA-BIBLE & WORSHIP ARTS
BS-BIBLE & WORSHIP ARTS
BA-BIBLE & BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
BS-BIBLE & BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION

EDUCATION DEGREES
BS-BIBLE & EDUCATION ENGLISH SPECIALIZATION
BS-BIBLE & EDUCATION HISTORY SPECIALIZATION
BS-BIBLE & EDUCATION ENGLISH & HISTORY SPECIALIZATION
BS-BIBLE & MUSIC EDUCATION

QUEST DEGREES
BA-MINISTRY & LEADERSHIP
BS-MINISTRY & LEADERSHIP
BA-MANAGEMENT & ETHICS
BS-MANAGEMENT & ETHICS
BS-EDUCATION & ETHICS, ELEMENTARY
BS-EDUCATION & ETHICS, SECONDARY

Great Lakes Christian College
http://www.glcc.edu/academics/degreeprograms.php
Bible/Theology Major
Christian Education Major
Christian Ministries Major
Cross-Cultural Ministry Major
Family Life Education Major
History Major
Interpersonal and Organizational Communication Major
Music Major
Psychology/Counseling Major
Youth Ministry Major

History major has 14 history classes, lots of bible classes, no math, no chemistry, no physics, no biology. Only math course offered in the entire school is an introduction to statistics and something called Quantitative Literacy which reads like junior high school math ("apply mathematical reasoning in the everyday world"). Biology is Biological Foundations of Nutrition and General Biology. One general science course called Physical Science: "A survey of the nature of matter and the basic laws describing its behavior as revealed through a study of chemistry, physics, astronomy, and earth science."

Nowhere did I find any courses considered minimally necessary when I went to school. A common factor in all such schools - it teaches how to maintain a status quo existence without questioning anything. Nothing sufficient (as science teaches) to push out the envelope - to test and experiment - to question. No wonder these religious fanatics know things only because they just know. There are no courses that teach how to learn a fact. Just more bible classes.

So I went to a local Christian College. Math is called Business Math - basically how to add and subtract for book keeping. Courses were mostly about the bible, communication courses (necessary to promote propaganda), and basic health courses (how to keep yourself alive with the right foods). Nothing on how to learn new ideas. No college level math courses of any kind. No laboratory sciences necessary to become a lab technician, scientific researcher, skilled designer, or anything else that America desperately needs. Just things necessary to found new churches, promoate propaganda, recruit, pay the bills, and maintain a status quo.

Even tech schools teach more useful concepts. Given what Evangelicals are taught, then they must believe only what they have been told. They have no tools necessary to question. These courses teach how to blindly follow only what has been told and not how to test or question so as to learn newly discovered god's laws. Good luck tryng to change evangelicals. How do you un-brainwash someone when they never learned how to think for themselves?

wolf · 08-08-2006, 09:05 AM

Is the concept that people go to Bible college to learn about the Bible so foreign to you?

tw · 08-08-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

Is the concept that people go to Bible college to learn about the Bible so foreign to you?

Apparently 'learning to think' (a purpose of college) and the bible are mutually exclusive - a classic oxymoron. No wonder they capitalize 'Bible' and lower case 'college'.

KinkyVixen · 08-08-2006, 11:57 AM

You guys spend an awful lot of time worrying about shit...I for one got tired of listening to the BS about evolution and how evolution was the only thing that brought us here. 'Cause hell, I believe that a big gas explosion caused our hearts to beat and our bodies to be able to house babies...it's just so easy to believe that right? Yeah. Maybe for it's hard for those of you to believe that there is a God and he designed us, because it's harder to prove? Evolution hasn't been proven, not the evolution of man from a tiny organism that got triggered by an explosion, at least not in my eyes. I see how things can evolve, but the evolution of man from an ape? Seriously? Regardless of all that, I don't think I should have to sit in a science class and be taught my teachers view of the world and religion and evolution and be told that if I don't agree with him I will flunk the class. It's ok for him to have his opinion and shove it down my throat (believe it or else), but it's not ok to have my own? Why can't kids be taught both sides, and pick their own? In my opinion it (evolution and intelligent design) shouldn't be taught at all, at least not in school...it should be left at home, like a lot of other issues.

08-03-2006, 01:00 AM	#46
Stormieweather Wearing her bitch boots Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,181	Here's a really fun site sorts of scientific and historical contradictions from the Bible (as well as other religious books). http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html I get a kick out of using this information to question people who try to take the Bible literally and argue it as fact. Stormie __________________ "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

08-03-2006, 07:58 AM	#47
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Skeptic But why, Stormi, if you try to point those contradictions out to a believer, they refuse to acknowlege them or retreat to some convoluted, faith-based explanation? As with my mother, you just can't win. One cannot use rationality or reason when discussing the world with the faith-based crowd. I try to explain contradictions in the bible only for myself; because I don't have to. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

08-03-2006, 08:34 PM	#53
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	We don't vote for a state board of ed in PA or NY. How common is it nation-wide? Do you like/dislike it? __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

08-07-2006, 10:02 PM	#56
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I live in the KC Metro area. I work in Kansas City, Kansas. I am unhappy as hell that these Right Wing idiots are shoving this tripe into the public education system. They're going to save our souls whether we want them to or not. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

08-08-2006, 09:05 AM	#58
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Is the concept that people go to Bible college to learn about the Bible so foreign to you? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

08-03-2006, 08:26 PM	#52
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Evolution opponents suffer setback Skeptics lose majority of Kansas Board of Education Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Posted: 9:21 a.m. EDT (13:21 GMT) Kansas GOP or Create Your Own TOPEKA, Kansas (AP) -- Conservative Republicans who pushed anti-evolution standards back into Kansas schools last year have lost control of the state Board of Education once again. The most closely watched race was in western Kansas, where incumbent conservative Connie Morris lost her GOP primary Tuesday. The former teacher had described evolution as "an age-old fairy tale" and "a nice bedtime story" unsupported by science. As a result of Tuesday's vote, board members and candidates who believe evolution is well-supported by evidence will have a 6-4 majority. Evolution skeptics had entered the election with a 6-4 majority. Critics of Kansas' science standards worried that if conservatives retained the board's majority, it would lead to attempts in other states to copy the Kansas standards. "There are people around the country who would like to see the Kansas standards in their own states," said Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education in Oakland, California, which supports the teaching of evolution. Also Tuesday, Kansas Republicans chose a nominee to challenge Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius in November. With 96 percent of the state's precincts reporting, state Sen. Jim Barnett captured his party's nomination with 36 percent of the vote, besting six other candidates. Control of the school board has slipped into, out of and back into conservative Republicans' hands since 1998, resulting in anti-evolution standards in 1999, evolution-friendly ones in 2001 and anti-evolution ones again last year. Late-night comedians have been making cracks about Kansas, portraying it as backward and ignorant. Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" broadcast a four-part series titled, "Evolution Schmevolution." A wider intelligent design movement The school board contest was part of a larger effort by the intelligent design movement to introduce its ideas in public schools. A suburban Atlanta school district is locked in a legal dispute over its putting stickers in 35,000 biology textbooks declaring evolution "a theory, not a fact." Last year, in Dover, Pennsylvania, voters ousted school board members who had required the biology curriculum to include mention of intelligent design. A federal judge struck down the policy, declaring intelligent design is religion in disguise. A poll by six news organizations last year suggested about half of Kansans thought evolution should be taught alongside intelligent design. Proponents of Kansas' latest standards contend they encourage open discussion. "Students need to have an accurate assessment of the state of the facts in regard to Darwin's theory," said John West, a vice president for the Center for Science and Culture at the Seattle-based, anti-evolution Discovery Institute. The standards say that the evolutionary theory that all life had a common origin has been challenged by fossils and molecular biology. And they say there is controversy over whether changes over time in one species can lead to a new species. Three incumbent conservatives faced primary foes Tuesday, and there was a contested GOP race for the seat held by a retiring conservative. A pro-evolution Democratic incumbent also had a challenger. With almost all the votes counted early Wednesday, pro-evolution Republican Jana Shaver picked off a conservative incumbent and won the primary for the open seat. Conservative Republican John Bacon kept his seat by besting two pro-evolution challengers, as did another conservative incumbent, Ken Willard. Janet Waugh, a Kansas City Democrat who opposed the new standards, easily defeated a more conservative Democrat who favored the anti-evolution language. Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

08-03-2006, 08:40 PM	#54
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	The farther removed from the county the power structure is the more I dislike it.

08-04-2006, 05:03 AM	#55
Hippikos Flocci Non Facio Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In The Line Of Fire Posts: 571	It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. (Groucho Marx)

08-08-2006, 12:48 AM	#57
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Appreciate why so many Americans are dropping in science and math literacy. A recent study of education in America found that private schools are not doing as well as public schools. And that largest, most obvious drop is the math skills of evangelical school students. So I decided to see what is taught in a Christian College. No math abilities is made woefully obvious. Some examples: Northwest Christian college http://www.nwcc.edu/programs/majors.html: Bible & Christian Ministry Studies Bible & Theology Biblical Studies Christian Theology Christian Ministries Missions/Global Ministries Pastoral Ministry Youth Ministry Business Administration Communication Exercise Science Journalism Speech Communication Computer and Information Science (CIS) General Studies Global Studies Human Services Humanities Interdisciplinary Studies (Individualized) Music Pre-Professional Health Sciences Psychology Social Sciences Teacher Education http://www.occ.edu/Academics/OCC.Degrees.aspx Ozark Christian College Bachelor of Theology(5-yearDegree) Majors include: Preaching, Ministry, Christian Education, Old Testament, New Testament, Missions, Music Bachelor of Christian Ministry (4-year degree) Specializations include: Adult Discipleship, Ministry, Campus Ministry, Child Care Ministry, Children’s Ministry, Church Planting Ministry, Cross-Cultural Family Ministry, Preaching Ministry, Student Ministry, TESOL Ministry, Women’s Ministry, Double Major in Bible and Psychology, Double Major in Bible and Missions, Double Major in Bible and Deaf Ministry Bachelor of Music and Ministry (4-year degree) Bachelor of Music and Worship (4-year degree) Bachelor of Bible and Ministry (2-year degree, requires previously earned bachelor’s degree) Bachelor of Bible and Missions (2-year degree, requires previously earned bachelor’s degree) Associate Dallas Christian College http://www.dallas.edu/Degrees/degrees.htm BS-BIBLE AND GENERAL STUDIES BA-BIBLE AND GENERAL STUDIES BS-BIBLE & PSYCHOLOGY BA-BIBLE & PSYCHOLOGY BS-BIBLE & PREACHING BA-BIBLE & PREACHING BA-BIBLE & YOUTH FAMILY MINISTRY BS-BIBLE & YOUTH FAMILY MINISTRY BS-BIBLE & CROSS CULTURAL MISSIONS BA-BIBLE & CROSS CULTURAL MISSIONS BS-BIBLE & CHRISTIAN EDUCATION BA-BIBLE & CHRISTIAN EDUCATION BS-BIBLE & MUSIC MINISTRY BA-BIBLE & WORSHIP AND YOUTH MINISTRY BS-BIBLE & WORSHIP AND YOUTH MINISTRY BA-BIBLE & WORSHIP ARTS BS-BIBLE & WORSHIP ARTS BA-BIBLE & BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION BS-BIBLE & BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION EDUCATION DEGREES BS-BIBLE & EDUCATION ENGLISH SPECIALIZATION BS-BIBLE & EDUCATION HISTORY SPECIALIZATION BS-BIBLE & EDUCATION ENGLISH & HISTORY SPECIALIZATION BS-BIBLE & MUSIC EDUCATION QUEST DEGREES BA-MINISTRY & LEADERSHIP BS-MINISTRY & LEADERSHIP BA-MANAGEMENT & ETHICS BS-MANAGEMENT & ETHICS BS-EDUCATION & ETHICS, ELEMENTARY BS-EDUCATION & ETHICS, SECONDARY Great Lakes Christian College http://www.glcc.edu/academics/degreeprograms.php Bible/Theology Major Christian Education Major Christian Ministries Major Cross-Cultural Ministry Major Family Life Education Major History Major Interpersonal and Organizational Communication Major Music Major Psychology/Counseling Major Youth Ministry Major History major has 14 history classes, lots of bible classes, no math, no chemistry, no physics, no biology. Only math course offered in the entire school is an introduction to statistics and something called Quantitative Literacy which reads like junior high school math ("apply mathematical reasoning in the everyday world"). Biology is Biological Foundations of Nutrition and General Biology. One general science course called Physical Science: "A survey of the nature of matter and the basic laws describing its behavior as revealed through a study of chemistry, physics, astronomy, and earth science." Nowhere did I find any courses considered minimally necessary when I went to school. A common factor in all such schools - it teaches how to maintain a status quo existence without questioning anything. Nothing sufficient (as science teaches) to push out the envelope - to test and experiment - to question. No wonder these religious fanatics know things only because they just know. There are no courses that teach how to learn a fact. Just more bible classes. So I went to a local Christian College. Math is called Business Math - basically how to add and subtract for book keeping. Courses were mostly about the bible, communication courses (necessary to promote propaganda), and basic health courses (how to keep yourself alive with the right foods). Nothing on how to learn new ideas. No college level math courses of any kind. No laboratory sciences necessary to become a lab technician, scientific researcher, skilled designer, or anything else that America desperately needs. Just things necessary to found new churches, promoate propaganda, recruit, pay the bills, and maintain a status quo. Even tech schools teach more useful concepts. Given what Evangelicals are taught, then they must believe only what they have been told. They have no tools necessary to question. These courses teach how to blindly follow only what has been told and not how to test or question so as to learn newly discovered god's laws. Good luck tryng to change evangelicals. How do you un-brainwash someone when they never learned how to think for themselves?

08-08-2006, 11:57 AM	#60
KinkyVixen Marching In! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 580	You guys spend an awful lot of time worrying about shit...I for one got tired of listening to the BS about evolution and how evolution was the only thing that brought us here. 'Cause hell, I believe that a big gas explosion caused our hearts to beat and our bodies to be able to house babies...it's just so easy to believe that right? Yeah. Maybe for it's hard for those of you to believe that there is a God and he designed us, because it's harder to prove? Evolution hasn't been proven, not the evolution of man from a tiny organism that got triggered by an explosion, at least not in my eyes. I see how things can evolve, but the evolution of man from an ape? Seriously? Regardless of all that, I don't think I should have to sit in a science class and be taught my teachers view of the world and religion and evolution and be told that if I don't agree with him I will flunk the class. It's ok for him to have his opinion and shove it down my throat (believe it or else), but it's not ok to have my own? Why can't kids be taught both sides, and pick their own? In my opinion it (evolution and intelligent design) shouldn't be taught at all, at least not in school...it should be left at home, like a lot of other issues. __________________ "Smile before bed.You'll sleep better."

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