Ice on the moon a "game-changer"

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheDaVinciChode

You know what else? It's science, too... They may not perform amazing experiments, all the time, nor produce entirely new ideas, nor test every possible theory... but they do experiment, test, and theorise...

Science is exploration. Only myths say someone must touch it. The best science, discovery, and exploration involves things that cannot or must not be touched. Welcome to science and exploration where touching something may even create less useful knowledge. Simply kill the knowledge or the human. Exploration is about knowledge - not touching something.

ISS means three people do nothing but maintenance. Massive innovation, science, exploration, discovery, and knowledge could have happened if listening to scientists who actually do this stuff. Instead you have reiterated a political agenda.

Turning screwdrivers in space. Trying to fix a defective toilet. That proves science was ongoing? That means exploration? It must. According to you, they were touching something. People from many countries were participating. Therefore science and exploration was happening. Aw shit.

Learn about the Martian Rovers where science, exploration, discovery, and knowledge is actually happening. Much of what made the Rovers so successful were equipment custom designed, built, operated, analyzed, or diagnosed in places such as Manhattan, Germany, Spain, and Australia. How can this be since they all were not in space - doing nothing productive? Science and international cooperation is found mostly in unmanned science. Many nations actively working to join large groups of international explorers who are doing science, exploration, and discovery using the only thing that does almost all of exploration - unmanned space vehicles. Only useful exploration of space is conducted by humans who never leave earth. Learn about what was required to actually do any advancement of mankind - ie Cassini - an international endeavor.

ISS is a science disaster. ISS is how to not search out anything. Does not even go when no man has gone before. More exploration and research was performed on one short Columbia mission than on ISS after a decade. Worse ISS is scheduled to be decommissioned in about four years. Mankind learned so much building a science station that does virtually nothing? That is good? List it. Not subjective 'human learning to be friendly to humans' nonsense. List $80billion worth of accomplishments. Nobody else can. Share what you know. Let’s see all these accomplishments - not previously posted press releases.

$80billion makes the obvious even simpler. No science. No exploration. Even a Super Collider to perform massive science, exploration, and discovery using people from all over the world was only $8billion. But we killed that and so much more to pay for ISS and 'glory'. Somehow 'glory' advances mankind? Somehow glory is called exploration?

Worse again, ISS is barely in space. Must be repeatedly boosted to higher orbit due to friction from earth's atmosphere. You call that exploration? Barely out of earth's atmosphere. Doing nothing but fixing and replacing parts for almost ten years and $80billion. No instruments to study stars. But that is exploration?

Add to a list of 'glory' accomplishments "Mission Accomplished". A purpose similar to ISS. Since you want to add irrelevant peripherals such as a military budgets, let's discuss another useless endeavor conducted only for 'glory' with no useful purpose. Initiated by the same people who destroyed so many ongoing space missions that did not have glory - just did science. Apparently you approve. After all, mankind learned so much by overthrowing Saddam - using your reasoning. Since we touched him, then mankind's knowledge was advanced. After all, 'glory' advances mankind - apparently.

How many stars did ISS astronauts study? None. All 'looking at the stars' is performed by robots atop mountains or by robots in space. ISS crew is too busy fixing and replacing broken parts that don't even look at stars. Somehow "human life support equipment" maintenance becomes science, exploration, discovery, and the advancement of mankind? I did not know Ed Norton and the Maytag repairman advanced mankind - also do exploration.

Fortunately, less than 10% of NASA's budget does virtually all the science and exploration - using unmanned solutions and international cooperation.

What creates war? Things done in the name of glory. What unites all in mankind's advancement? Science. The world is fully cooperating in things that actually do science such as the Large Hadron Collider in Cern. Massive money spent to achieve science means so many go elsewhere where science is actually ongoing and earning more respect. Fixing toilets and replacing gyroscopes in orbit does not advance mankind. But operating unmanned probes all over the solar system through international cooperation advances all. That means no money wasted on the ISS or 'Mission Accomplished' - which do no science and therefore do not advance mankind. Both exist only for 'glory'.

[Elspode]

You know, in the unlikely event that our species isn't extincted by the time the Sun turns into a big bloated red thing and consumes all but the rocks of our fair Earth, I'd kinda like our species to be really, really comfortable with the relocation process.

[TheDaVinciChode]

TW - You really are an ignorant little thing, aren't you?

You didn't pay attention to a word I wrote... Which is terribly sad, and shows how closed-minded you are. Must be all the shit clogging your ears from having your head so firmly shoved up your arse, for so long.

It is NOT just about numbers. It is NOT just about pure science. It is about exploration, it is about doing something, reaching outwards... These are things that machines CANNOT do. They can explore, yes, but, not in the true sense of the word. That's like saying "I watched The Discovery Channel, and explored The Amazon Rainforest." You didn't explore it, you didn't interact with it, you didn't do anything other than sit on your arse, and see moving images of it, on a T.V screen. That is NOT exploration. What makes that so difficult for you to understand? Do you have a single human bone in your body? Are you that much of a bean-counting, fact-toting douche, that all desire for true, human exploration, human question, the quest for human knowledge, has been taken away from you?

Replacing man, with robot, will destroy mankind, in terms of exploration. We will create robots to do the menial jobs for us, so that we can spend more time doing exactly that - Explore, Discover, Question. Leave the ROBOTS to the bean-counting, to the number-crunching science. Leave the exploration, to the only creatures capable of doing so - THE HUMANS... because robots will never do it as we can. They'll crunch the numbers, they'll throw the facts... they won't live it, nor experience it.

You completely glossed over the fact that, in comparison to federal bail-outs, or America's swelling military budget, that $80 Billion is a few pennies... A few pennies, for something as extraordinary, as living in space, with multiple nations, performing experiments (no matter how "mundane," if that is what you believe,) and partaking in a new frontier. How can that be a bad thing? It's not, that's how. Pennies, sir... pennies.

How sad your life must be, if you will try to take from that accomplishment, from the greatness of that human achievement, just because your Government doesn't allocate enough funds from its warmongering, to allow for Earth-based science, as well as extra-terrestrial exploration.

Humans explore. Humans ask questions. Humans seek that personal connection with anything.

It is in our nature. Why try to take away from that?

Much more money has been spent on failed projects, on warmongering, on bailing out failing businesses, just to keep the fat-cats happy. Complain about THAT money being poorly used, because, no matter what you say, you CANNOT justify a few pennies being "misused" to further the boundaries of human exploration, understanding... human nature. If you feel so strongly about the lack of science being performed on the ISS, stop seeing it as merely a "tool of science," and see it for what it truly is - A station, in space, where people live, perform experiments, observe, and... explore. It is not a robot, it is not a tool, therefore, it is not comparable to the Mars Rovers, nor the Hubble Space Telescope, nor any machine that you desperately try to compare it to, simply to pursue your pathetic agenda.

[TheDaVinciChode]

Originally Posted by tw

Next time you do design on space based equipment, then let us know you finally learned something.

And next time try to do it like an adult; not like UG.

The emboldened statement has nothing to do with this discussion, at all.

Stating an opinion of ignorance, is not childish. It's an opinion based on the ignorance of your posts.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Elspode

You know, in the unlikely event that our species isn't extincted by the time the Sun turns into a big bloated red thing and consumes all but the rocks of our fair Earth, I'd kinda like our species to be really, really comfortable with the relocation process.

We could panic - do no science by constantly launching man into space - and then never create a solution, learn how to travel in deep space, or learn something useful.

Best hope for your catastrophic scenario is to stop launching men uselessly in space so that science is actually conducted; so that solutions for 'a man in space' is possible. Why condone catastrophic based fears that only create short term thinking, panic, and no advancement of mankind? Advancement comes only from the hard core work that is based in science; not in glory.

Fact - virutally nothing was learned keeping three men in space for $80billion. Massive amount of science and advancement lost because so much money was wasted in glory. Only way man accomplish deep space travel - $80 billion better redirected to things that actually do science such as unmanned science vehicles and quantum physics. Spending $80billion so that people can keep fixing toilets and replacing gyroscopes did nothing useful; did not advance knowledge or mankind. But worse, that is so obvious.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Flint

Public Service Announcement: The term "game changer" is on my list of over-used phrases which need to be forcibly eradicated. As is "sea change."

But in this case it is appropriate. Until now they were only able to play golf up there. Now they can play hockey, too!

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheDaVinciChode

The emboldened statement has nothing to do with this discussion, at all.

Your every post is starts with an insult. Being nasty is how you like it. So lets talk about the size of your penis - since that also has so much relevance to your brain size.

Thank god you do nothing that involves science. Numbers are irrelevant? Well, they were to George Jr. So how big does your penis get everytime you say science is not about discovery and exploration?

[tw]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

But in this case it is appropriate. Until now they were only able to play golf up there. Now they can play hockey, too!

When I drop a tool, it sometimes lands on my foot. Nobody cares. If I slice a golf ball, that is normal. When a lady dropped her tools, it is monitored and tracked by people all over the world for years. Her tool bag is now listed alongside other orbiting satellites. Some mistakes are not forgotten. (Whatever happened to Bill Buckner?)

[TheDaVinciChode]

Originally Posted by tw

Your every post is starts with an insult. Being nasty is how you like it. So lets talk about the size of your penis - since that also has so much relevance to your brain size.

Thank god you do nothing that involves science. Numbers are irrelevant? Well, they were to George Jr. So how big does your penis get everytime you say science is not about discovery and exploration?

Numbers are not so important, in terms of human exploration, you dolt.

As I have repeatedly stated - It's not about "true science," nor "number-crunching," nor "bean-counting." An endeavour like the ISS is about pushing boundaries, exploration, co-operation, not just "hardcore science." A simple point that you seem unable to comprehend, hence my opinion of you as "ignorant."

You're unwilling to bend, unable to see beyond the tip of your nose.

You think the world is black and white. There are many facets to science, to discovery, and even to the number-crunching that you're ever so fond of... You need to realise this, or you'll forever remain, well... ignorant.

(PS: It may seem like a random question, but, where are you from? I only ask, because it seems apparent that English is not your first language. Perhaps that is why you're unable to grasp this concept? Because you are unable to understand the manner in which I string together a sentence? If so, I apologise. Language barriers are annoying.)

[classicman]

Originally Posted by TheDaVinciChode

Stating an opinion of ignorance, is not childish. It's an opinion based on the ignorance of your posts.

snort.

Originally Posted by tw

So lets talk about the size of your penis - since that also has so much relevance to your brain size.
So how big does your penis get every time you say science is not about discovery and exploration?

Typical

[Elspode]

The entire world stopped, and if a TV was available, watched mankind take it's first step on the moon. I missed this happening when we dropped the rovers on Mars.

Apparently, there is *something* to manned exploration of space, whether you, TW, believe it to be of value or not. Or are we talking about the "millions of flies can't be wrong, so shit must be good" thing, here?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Sure, I told my wife she could drive herself to that shower, I was going to watch the Moon Landing, just like the rest of the world.

But, after it's been done, repeats don't hold a candle to a first, the first.

Now if the Moon surface wasn't so boring, or there was a chance of a giant worm coming up and snatching somebody, maybe it could develop regular viewers.

[ZenGum]

I sometimes ask students who the first man on the moon was. About 75% know it.

Then I ask who the second man was. ..... ..... ..... maybe 2%.

Poor Buzz Aldrin. He even got a Movie character named after him, and still no one knows him

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Sure, I told my wife she could drive herself to that shower, I was going to watch the Moon Landing, just like the rest of the world.

But, after it's been done, repeats don't hold a candle to a first, the first.

To which are you referring, the Moon Landing or the wife?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Moon landing, the second wife was much better.