Community Colleges and Remedial needs

[Griff]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Isn't it the responsibility of the jr. high schools to get kids ready for high school?

Isn't it the responsibility of the elementary schools to get kids ready for jr. high school?

Isn't it the responsibility of the parents to get kids ready for life, of which school is a subset?

Amen.

[DanaC]

It's all very well saying it's the parents' responsibility...but what about when parents fail in that responsibility? Whose job is it to step into the gap?

[Griff]

It becomes the teachers' to the detriment of the other students. In an ideal world education would have a flexible option for the kid whose parents failed but schools that are failing actually get less funding because it feels good to certain Glenn Beck demographics. NCLB takes public education back to its totalitarian roots, but the need for cannon fodder isn't what it was so it doesn't even suit its original purpose.

[monster]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Birth control would be easier, but since their kids can't read, probably the parents can't either, so scratch that idea...and we'll just go the adoption route. Like you said. They'll only need to be able to make a huge X when social services come to take the kids away.

You're stuck in a rut here. Not using birth control is not all about not being able to read. Being able to read does suddenly give a person the skills/intelligence to act on what they've read. it's like the difference between hearing and listening. Not using birth control is often about religion and about having something that belongs to you, something that you are the boss of. And when you see the schools "looking after" those somethings once they get past the small cute stage and becomes something you can't handle, you don't worry about the responsibilities you have because you don't see any.

If the parents fail, then it is the job of society. But not by giving the failing parents more money or sending them to "parenting" or remedial math classes and falling back on the schools -they've already demonstrated that system of education doesn't work for them. That's a cop out. Society needs to take the failed child on and parent them properly. If adoption is the way, so be it. Give the money to a family who will do that job and turn that child around. I'd prefer the failing parent and the child to be adopted, but I'm a dreamer. This is America. We don't really help the nasty dirty losers, we throw (tax deductible) money at the problem, so they can spend time being "educated" out of sight or clothed in nice new winter coats so they look more acceptable, while we feel good about our charitable donations. And then when they finally break the law because they don't know how to survive legally and have no life skills, then we get to lock them up out of sight. Excellent.

#awaitsthedaywhenreproductivesystemscanbeturnedoffuntilparentinglicenseisissued

[DanaC]

True dat, about the reading.

Reading as a skill is entirely unrelated to intelligence. I have taught highly intelligent adults who found the reading skill almost impossible to master. By the same token it is a proven fact that someone with profoundly low IQ levels (including children born with severe downs syndrome) may well be able to acquire the reading skill: they may not be able to interpret or understand what it is they're reading, but the mechanical act of associating the visual symbols with the appropriate sounds, and the technical understanding of how those sounds go together are things anybody might be able to learn. And anybody might find difficult.

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by monster

I'm with footie. It is your responsibility as a parent to make sure your offspring is ready for life. Schools are an excellent tool, but they are no more than that. Parents need to make responsible schooling choices and monitor their children's development as learning, functioning human beans. You don't expect a car to get you from A to B without you putting anything in to the operation. Why would you expect a school to do that for your kid?

I do not homeschool (for everyone's sanity) but I picked a school that emphasised learning skills and human bean development rather than learning facts by rote. And I got involved and made sure it was performing the way I wanted, and where I saw gaps, I picked up the slack. That's my responsibility. It's every parent's responsibility. But sadly too many see school as this great gadget that's there to make their lives easier and take away the responsibility. Like the urban legend about the guy who set his winnebago to cruise and then went in the back to sleep/make coffee and was surprised when it crashed and he sued the manufacturers. no-one expects the cars to get the passengers from a to b without careful guidance and lots of input. Some cars are stick shift and require more input, some cars cost a lot of money and do almost everything for you. But none work without a driver.

Not everyone has the same school choices, but there are always choices. School is not a childminder. You have a kid, the local school is crap, there are no other schools, you need to go to work, you find a way to work and homeschool or you move. If you can't do that, you need to hand the child over to someone who can.

You must not be from around here, why your attitude is almost Un American...

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by monster

Unfotunately, the most cost-effective way to ensure that no child is left behind is to make sure that none get too far ahead.

Laughed out loud - and added to my quotes file.

[Pete Zicato]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I dont believe any child is 'ineducable'.

Possibly. But crack babies come pretty close.

[Sundae]

Disagree.
Just don't shout me down because of my lack of children; that was a choice.

Originally Posted by monster
Unfotunately, the most cost-effective way to ensure that no child is left behind is to make sure that none get too far ahead.

No. You've been reading too much Kurt Vonnegut. Or been in America too long. Okay I hold my hands up and say I don't know that system, but it's over-used as a clarion call by the right - who don't use the state system anyway.

Pete - crack babies are not part of this discussion. In the same way that children incapacitated by cerebral palsy and Down's syndrome and autism aren't. It's an interesting point, but not relevant.

Personally I am for mandatory birth control for underage girls. Shriek! Shriek! This is against religion and the law of free will! [not here, in the wider world]
Well if intercourse has an age limit, surely it is legal. It might not keep children in school, but such is human nature. Many girls were married before 16 in teh olden days.

I had a hundred things to say, but have been watching a documentary at the same time.
The way some people preach Jesus' message of peace, love and understanding makes me pretty sick. Too sick to carry on with this (no Dwellar was involved)

Abort all your children while they are still tadpoles. You will burn for all eternity, but the cells you loved before you even knew they existed will only be in Limbo. Serves you right for taking the Pill (technically an abortion as it rejects fertilised eggs) which is an abomination.

Then again having 13 children who go home to God via starvation and disease is much more worthy. God will then love you for the protracted suffering of each drawn, desperate face you send him. His will is done.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Pete - crack babies are not part of this discussion. In the same way that children incapacitated by cerebral palsy and Down's syndrome and autism aren't. It's an interesting point, but not relevant.

Not over here--in America the crack babies have to go through the same standardized testing rigamarole that the other kids do. That's the kind of situation that Griff was referring to with his own students. You can work to get certain concessions as part of their special ed status, but along with that comes the right to special education services themselves, which there is often not money to provide, so the concessions don't get made, unless the parents are pushing for it (and in the case of crack baby parents, they're not likely to push for anything other than a longer school day.) The crack babies are precisely the ones that "cannot be left behind," and yet there's no money to give them the separate classrooms with appropriate (lower) levels of skills expectations that they need.

[skysidhe]

The educational system is passing 65% of students who cannot pass a compass exam.
Yes it is the parents responsibility, but to say so, as if that is an excuse, in light of the huge percentage, is so laissez-faire. It's like saying the dog ate my homework.


ahwell

I was being facetious about the birth control. btw

It solves the problem as about as much as saying it's the parents fault.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

No. You've been reading too much Kurt Vonnegut. Or been in America too long. Okay I hold my hands up and say I don't know that system, but it's over-used as a clarion call by the right - who don't use the state system anyway.

OR, I'm being overly cynical in a very Brit way.

That said, No Child Left Behind is the name of an act here which -imo- has very little to do with ensuring no child is left behind and a whole lot to do with seeing education as an exercise in passing age-specific standardised tests.