The only thing you need to know about the 911 hearings

[Beestie]

I see a waterfall and a canoe with no paddles.

[jaguar]

Well on my British passport I'd still have to have fingerprints taken. That isn't my idea of friendly to a nation that's given more support than anyone to the US's War on Whatever.

I've never exactly been a big fan of the US but I wouldn't consider travel there until I can enter without being treated like a convicted criminal and I know plenty of others like me. I also know a growing group of people refusing work in the US because of the increasingly ridiculous legal system coupled with these new ludicrous feelgood^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H security measures.

[Undertoad]

Well guys, it looks like our measures were successful.

[OnyxCougar]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with fingerprinting foreign nationals. If they are here on legitimate business, I don't understand the resistance. It makes it one step harder for people who are faking passports to do so. I think that's a good idea.

IMO, I prefer the increased "security measures" such as fingerprints on passports, because we got complacent before, and it bit us on the ass. Now, when we try to increase security, people complain. So what, we're suppose to be complacent again? Don't think so.

Well, then complain. We don't need you over here complaining anyway. Stay home and complain.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I hope the terrorists don't stroll in from Mexico or Canada.

[tw]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with fingerprinting foreign nationals. If they are here on legitimate business, I don't understand the resistance. It makes it one step harder for people who are faking passports to do so. I think that's a good idea.

In which case you are an advocate of a National Identity and Verfication program. After all, the WTC terrorists used American ID. Most popular ID for the WTC attack was NJ driver's license. Why? Driver's licenses are being used for a purpose they were never intended - so that you can prove your identity.

It is not the fingerprinting that created the problem. It was a sudden demand for microchips in passports. The proclaimation was made without even first learning what could and could not be done - classic MBA type solutions. This caused a massive problem for our friends who had to stand for hours in lines for Visas - because this computer chip passport could not be implemented by Oct 2004. It is only recently that Powell finally recinded the requirement.

But why the requirement? The US government did not have an information collecting problem. They had and probably still have an information processing problem. Problem was not with the existing passport system. WTC attack could occur becasue little people were stifled by top management from doing their job. The list is long from John O'Neill, Richard Clarke, FBI agents in AZ, IL, and MN - and onwards.

And so we fix a defective top management problem by creating a big computer chip passport system?

Why no terrorists lately? Top management decided that maybe terrorism was a problem. Suddenly little people were empowered to do their job. Problem even traceable to a president who had at least three warnings specifically about the WTC attack - and did nothing. Problem being that this administration even tried to hide those warnings rather than admit to the reason why WTC attackers were never detected. A computer passport is cute. But it does not solve the original problem - top management who could not even be bothered to respond to obvious warnings.

Even after Al Qaeda tried to use commercial airliners as missiles to attack the Eiffel Tower years previous (a concept even demonstrated in a Tom Clancey novel), Condi Rice claims she could never forsee terrorists using aircraft as missiles. Therein lies the problem. Top management even in denial. High tech passports only a knee jerk solution that does not address the original problem.

Blame the foreigners. Its all their fault. We don't need no stickin National ID system. Driver's Licenses do just fine. We don't need no president that listens to warnings. Don't worry. Be happy.

[OnyxCougar]

mhm.

[richlevy]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
I hope the terrorists don't stroll in from Mexico or Canada.

Actually one of my nightmares is hearing that schools in the middle east are adding Spanish to their curriculum. The truth is that between legal and illegal immigration, we have a large back door into the US. Think about all of the places where menial workers can go and the loose or non-existent documentation requirements.

The fact is, many companies and government offices no longer hire their own cleaning staffs. In many cases they are contractors, sub-contracters, or sub-sub-contractors. Since illegal aliens work cheaper, there is already an environment of avoiding documentation and background checks.

Can anyone really tell a work crew of Salvadorans from one made up of ethnic Saudis?

[elSicomoro]

Nah...they all look the same...

[russotto]

The biometric requirement, which is where the microchips come in, has not been rescinded. But it only applies to NEWLY-ISSUED passports after October 26, 2004.

The machine-readable passport simply uses OCR fonts in a specific location.

[Clodfobble]

Can anyone really tell a work crew of Salvadorans from one made up of ethnic Saudis?

Most of us in Texas can. On the other hand, I am shocked when people can tell Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, and Thai people apart just by looking at them. It's all in what you're used to seeing.

[tw]

It had long been acknowledged as one path into the US. Escape from a refugee camp only just one-half mile from the Chunnel. Walk under the channel. Get a plane from Britian to Canada - no passport was required. Cross any land border between US and Canada.

Since then, we have made this path more difficult - requiring forged documents to use that airplane. The point is that immigration controls are only a filter, as border guard Debra demonstrated. After being warned by the Clinton administration that acutally took threats seriously, Debra then identified and ran down what would be the Los Angles airport bomber.

Filter not only work here but identified a long list of bombing that included Toronto, the NYC Millenium celebration, the (was it?) Hilton hotel in Amman Jordan, and other bombings. The one bombing that Debra did not end up stopping was the USS The Sullivans. Terrorists so overloaded their boat with bombs that the boat sunk.

The system works when the president first takes warnings seriously. The system does not work when the president sounds five Orange alerts on threats that just did not exist but were timed to mask his other blunders; to shore up a falling popularity in polls.