Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[Happy Monkey]

The presence of any foreign army would turn many American citizens into what that army would consider bad guys.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Good thing I'm not a commie then huh?

I'd sure hate to give away the computer that I worked so hard for.

[Undertoad]

Would you do that HM? Would you be a bad guy?

[BigV]

hang on a second while I turn off my trick question alarm

Ok. I'm back.

UT, dude, you're crystal clear on the importance of context, and you're a sharp reader too. You know that HM's actions would be his own, and you likewise know that the definition of "bad guy" *DOES NOT* come from HM, but from the foreign army. Those were the conditions in HM's example, and they neatly match the conditions in Iraq.

So, why the trick question: "Would you be a bad guy?" It's not up to him to say, is it? Ask the foreign army.

[Happy Monkey]

Exactly.

To the foreign army... I would be a VERY bad man. Even in my current state, perhaps especially.
You could not imagine. Truly, you could not.
I love this nation and the ends would justify the means.
That is not rampant nationalism, it is about where I live.
Their army would not be humans, they would be things, objects to be "removed". Nothing more.
That is why I see no issue with the insurgency (the domestic one) in Iraq. I feel they are completely justified, as far as actions toward the military.
This time around, EVERYTHING the US is doing is illegal and immoral.

[Undertoad]

OK, let's write it differently. And hell, let's have fun with it.

Bush decides in 2008 that he is the leader of a new religious reformation, and he cancels the election. He then assassinates all Generals who will not stand with him, and uses the military and private intelligence to take out major figures turning against him in major cities.

The British, aghast at this situation, knowing that the future of the world depends on it, decides that they can use their military might to enforce a regime change if they can flip 30% of the American military to their side. They invade Washington and find that they flip 80%, including many commanders who secretly hated Bush but had to play the game.

Bush himself retreats to an unspecified location. Members of the Bush team are pictured on packs of trading cards; Cheney is the Ace of Spades. The Brits dismiss the remaining military, and attempt to establish a level of control with too few troops, and fail completely to seal the borders.

An insurgency develops from a number of different places. One is a group of religious nuts in Colorado Springs, who recruit across the country, calling themselves the Bush Believers. They find they can maintain order in large areas, but at the highest levels they are true right-wing conspiracy people who have lucked into leadership of the red states.

Another insurgency develops out of what was a loose network of Organized Criminals - mobsters. In inner cities, the "mob" fights with even looser networks of criminals and Thugs for control of the streets. The police forces fold away after missing paychecks from governments that no longer exist, on a banking system that is no longer guaranteed on dollars whose value is diminishing. The Brits install a system of citizen policing but insist that no police can carry guns, so that the new cops can signal to society how things ought to be.

The Brits establish elections, and the people vote widely to express that they want things to go back to normal at least, hoping a proper government will get the job done. But real power is invested in the people willing to use it, not necessary where it is granted by vote; and so civil society continues to suffer.

All of the insurgency groups kill, but particularly the Organized Criminals, who make deals and find sources of arms and training manuals from nationalist Northern Irelanders. The common target of the insurgency groups is Brits, but they routinely kill each other, or anyone who they think will disagree with them. In particular, it's completely racist in certain areas, and one learns grimly of the murders of the only remaining black couple in Colorado Springs, along with many carfuls of whites whose crime was to drive through a Thug-controlled neighborhood.

Meanwhile, the British people have lost all patience and are demanding that it's gone on long enough. If 500 more of them can be killed, they will probably leave, letting the rest of the set fight it out for control. The new police, the new army, and the new government will probably fall, leading to even more chaos and probably even prompting invasion by other countries.

So, do you join:

- The Bush Believers

- The Organized Criminals

- The Thugs

- The Brits

- The Starter Government

- Head for Canada

- None of the Above

If the election is canceled, I will not write what I will do.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Bruce, can you ever get it through your head that our self-made and explicitly self declared enemies, who have been busily bloodying us since about 1983, are simply not our fault?? They are their own fault.

Therefore, they should lose and we should win. Democracy should win despite anything the undemocrats can do or say. When the last dictator kicks out his last moments hanged on the tripes of the last national chief of secret police, how much woe will have fled our world?

There is really my sole concern, Bruce. What else is there? What else could there be?

If you'd stick to the self declared enemies it would be understandable.

BUT, when you declare any country with a different system and/or set of values to be the enemy, especially when they've shown no aggression other than disagreeing with your choice of system, then you are a jingoistic bully... deserving to lose.

Why are you the only one allowed self determination? Are you so unsure of the value and strength of your system you must eliminate all competition? Is it necessary to have the military seek out competitors and smack the in the knee with a club so you can win a medal?

Think about who the enemy really is, next time you're at walmart buying a Chinese made American flag.... to save yourself 50 cents.

[Happy Monkey]

I'd like to think that I'd join a local insurgency, not affiliated with any of your groups, but there's no way to tell, really.

[Undertoad]

Of course, the other way to take my whole original question is, would you join the bad guys in Iraq?

[yesman065]

I'd be hangin with MaggieL.

[piercehawkeye45]

If the roles were switched I wonder if UG would be the first ones bombing the invading armies?

I would probably play some role in the insurgency but it also depends on the role of the insurgency. If it was to get rid of the invading army then yes but if it fought for values I disagreed with then I could not join them. There are too many variables for a definite yes or no though.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by UT

- The Bush Believers

- The Organized Criminals

- The Thugs

- The Brits

- The Starter Government

- Head for Canada

- None of the Above

Action: Hello, Canada, eh!
Evaluation / response by:
BB: Minor victory for us, only because it makes the population of a blue state, an area we don’t control, slightly less. Small bonus for the absence of a potential enemy.

OC: Potentially large victory, depending on what was left behind (house, car, stuff), and in whose local territory it was left (OC, TT).

TT: Potentially large victory, depending on what was left behind (house, car, stuff), and in whose local territory it was left (OC, TT).

TB: A dead loss. There goes a non-hostile local. Someone with whom we could have worked while we’re in this war, someone this messed up country will desperately need once we’re gone.

SG: A dead loss. There goes someone who’s smart, resourceful, and takes action. It’s a damn shame he values himself and his family more than he values our ith whom we could have worked while we’re in this war, someone our beloved country will desperately need once The Brits have gone.

Other New Canadians: Another smart (and probably sad, but live) rat fleeing the sinking ship.

NA: What? Me, worry?

Alternate ending 01:
Action: Become bold Bush Believer.
Evaluation / response by:

BB: Welcome aboard. First things first, sign this DNR, this Non Compete, this Oath of Loyalty and this Confession. Oh, don’t worry, we’ll fill in the date later. Oh, and here, drink this kool aid.

OC: I always knew that *$M)%*(&(@ was a “patriot”! Ptui! He’s dead meat if he ever shows up here again.

TT: I always knew that *$M)%*(&(@ was a “patriot”! Ptui! He’s dead meat if he ever shows up here again.

TB: Great, just bloody great. At this rate, we’ll need to start printing Canasta decks.

SG: Deluded f*cker. True Americans owe their loyalty to the country and the Constitution, not the man.

NC: Dumbass.

NA: What, me? Worry?

Alternate ending 02:…

Alternate ending 03:
…
Alternate ending 04:
Etc, etc.

Don’t you see that A is in opposition to B? If I align with A, I am a good guy to A and a bad guy to B, and vice a freakin versa. You must be acquainted with the concept of self righteousness, and everyone, you, me and “them” included.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I'd join the 1920s Revolution Brigades.