Alec Baldwin is a scumbag

[glatt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Ok, those who are not criminally insane are always accountable for their actions.

And what about toddlers? Those with Alzheimer's?

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Then refute them logically, show where I am wrong. When you do I will state that I am wrong and thank you for teaching me.

Or how about you stop making absolute statements that are virtually always false? The world isn't black and white.

I see... since you can't see that we are discussing an adult, who, as far as we know is sane, I'll try to dumb my language down for you now.
Sane adults are always responsible for their actions.

People with Alzheimer's and toddlers are not allowed in public with full rights, similar to the insane.

If you don't like how I communicate how about just don't take it personally. You're funny.

This is about a parent's reaction to their kid and they are always responsible, unless they are a toddler, you cutie you, or has Alzheimer's, LOL!, for that. It is not the kid's fault if the parent loses it.
If they are criminally insane, someone has dropped the ball. But, you just seem to want to argue, not really contribute to the thread.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

But, you just seem to want to argue, not really contribute to the thread.

If the thread is about Alec Baldwin only, then why did you make a statement that all people are always responsible for their actions? You expanded the scope of the thread when you said that.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

I see... since you can't see that we are discussing an adult, who, as far as we know is sane, I'll try to dumb my language down for you now.
Sane adults are always responsible for their actions.

Excellent. Now you are talking. I can't prove that false.

I realize that trying to get you to change your posting habits is futile, but I figured I'd try with a post (or two.)

We are in a thread about a sane adult, discussing with, presumably, sane adults... within that paradigm, my statement was accurate.
It is ridiculously cumbersome and silly to type out all possible exceptions to every statement within every discussion. As long as you are making statements within the paradigm of the discussion it is reasonable to retain the language of that paradigm.
I am sure I could find examples of you doing the same thing. I would not because it is unreasonable to do so.

[glatt]

So you are saying that whenever you write in absolute terms, you don't actually mean it?

When you title a thread "Alex Baldwin is a scumbag," you only mean that in the context of leaving this message, "Alex Baldwin made a scumbag move"?

That's what Bruce and I have been saying, so I guess you agree with us.

[BigV]

glatt:

I find that style maddening too. But rather that further flatten my head and my hand in frustration, I make an adjustment. Just as I would decode and reencode words spoken in a different language, I make a translation of what I hear into something I understand. The particular translation I make in situations like this is "blah blah blah absolute statement" "blah blah blah superlative" "blah blah blah assertion" becomes "... my opinion, and I'm highly agitated / excited / angry about it"

Assertions as facts, especially absolutes without qualifiers, drive me nuts. I have a hard time communicating around and through such obstacles, and this method has helped me the most. I try to listen more with my heart and less with my ears. Communication, after all, is about the exchange of ideas, and only coincidentally about hearing the sounds. A tape recorder can capture the sounds. But that's very very different from listening.

I reckon it goes both ways. There must be some out there that think I'm so wishy washy, a flipflopper that I can't take a position and mean it and keep it. Not so. I'm consistent, but I have extreme difficulty with careless use of superlatives and exaggerations and absolutes in serious conversation.

Originally Posted by glatt

So you are saying that whenever you write in absolute terms, you don't actually mean it?

When you title a thread "Alex Baldwin is a scumbag," you only mean that in the context of leaving this message, "Alex Baldwin made a scumbag move"?

That's what Bruce and I have been saying, so I guess you agree with us.

Where does the thread title come into this?
No, an adult who makes the conscious choice to speak to their child like that is a scumbag.
I am making that as an absolute statement.
Especially one who does not own it afterward and simply say "I fucked-up, I'm sorry"... scumbag... bottom of the bag. Absolutely.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by duck_duck

I just heard on the news that a court temporarly suspended his visitation rights.

Exactly what mommy wanted...

[Stormieweather]

So the people arguing for Alec here feel that what he said is justifiable, acceptable, is not abusive, and he should suffer no consequences for his behavior, is that correct?

Is this a result of the common, yet erroneous, opinion that abuse is only physical? That verbal assult does not count? How about the people who say that slapping with an open hand is not hitting? Or forcing your wife to have sex is not rape because she is your property? You all agree?

And further, that his anger is not his responsibility, but his daughter's or even his daughter's mother's fault?

See, I believe in self-accountabililty. We are each responsible for our actions as well as our reactions to external forces. We all have a choice in what we do and say. Alec could have chosen a non-abusive, assertive manner to discuss his disappointment and hurt with his daughter. Even if he 'lost' it and said things he shouldn't have, he could have been mature and emotionally healthy enough to apologise (without slinging blame and excuses around). But he didn't.


Stormie

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

So the people arguing for Alec here feel that what he said is justifiable, acceptable, is not abusive, and he should suffer no consequences for his behavior, is that correct?

Stormie

No. What he should suffer as a consequence is no business of neither yours or mine, nor of the general public. Mommy put it in the press. What goes on between parents and children in this case should be handled between them not tried in the press. No one has all the information about this relationship.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

So the people arguing for Alec here feel that what he said is justifiable, acceptable, is not abusive, and he should suffer no consequences for his behavior, is that correct?

No

Is this a result of the common, yet erroneous, opinion that abuse is only physical?

No

That verbal assult does not count?

No

How about the people who say that slapping with an open hand is not hitting? Or forcing your wife to have sex is not rape because she is your property? You all agree?

You're off on a tangent too far from this case to be considered. That's the subject for another thread.

And further, that his anger is not his responsibility, but his daughter's or even his daughter's mother's fault?

Who said that?

See, I believe in self-accountabililty. We are each responsible for our actions as well as our reactions to external forces. We all have a choice in what we do and say. Alec could have chosen a non-abusive, assertive manner to discuss his disappointment and hurt with his daughter. Even if he 'lost' it and said things he shouldn't have, he could have been mature and emotionally healthy enough to apologise (without slinging blame and excuses around). But he didn't.

I see, so even though it's none of your business, you still want to invoke the death penalty, because this innocent child was irreparably harmed by her father yelling at her, and using dirty words she'd never been exposed to, which will permanently ruin her self esteem and cause her to become a Coke and booze addicted Hollywood slut.

[Stormieweather]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

~snip~ you still want to invoke the death penalty.

I did not say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

~snip~because this innocent child was irreparably harmed by her father yelling at her?.

Are you an expert on the affects of verbal abuse on children? I guess it is really just harmless in your book?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

~snip~...and using dirty words she'd never been exposed to, which will permanently ruin her self esteem and cause her to become a Coke and booze addicted Hollywood slut.

Does it matter if she's heard the words before?

Honestly, this type of attitude astounds me.

Personally, I don't give two shits about Alec, Kim or their daughter. I haven't looked for a a single article about them since the media played the tape the first time.

What I care about is the ignorance that attempts to minimize or excuse verbal and emotional abuse. It is appalling that so many people think that talking to another person, particularly a child, in this manner is not a big deal. Society, in general, are enablers of abusers. Their ignorance and silence on the issue allows it to perpetuate in darkness, further isolating its victims and destroying even more lives, hearts, futures, families, and souls - often in combination with financial health, careers, and physical bodies, not to mention children and their lives and futures, as they learn the behavior themselves by example.

So lets all mind our own business and ignore the future generation of abusers and abuse victims that today's domestic terrorists are raising.

I just wish people DID understand how wrong this is and cared enough NOT to subject their own families to similar. But sadly, that is not the case.

Stormie

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

I did not say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

I apologize, I was being facetious, but let the punishment fit the crime and be dictated by those involved. Don't try and punish him here when we don't have the facts.

Are you an expert on the affects of verbal abuse on children? I guess it is really just harmless in your book?

Are you? What constitutes verbal abuse, yelling at a kid once? Yes it's harmless, as a matter of fact, I'll say it's beneficial. Would you rather have the kid yelled at for the first time when there's a serious threat to them and they are so shocked they can't react defensively?

Does it matter if she's heard the words before?

Does it matter if she ever hears them?

Honestly, this type of attitude astounds me.

I'm not surprised considering the misguided daisy chain of reasoning in your first post. Another paragraph or two would have surely led to a nuclear Holocaust.

Personally, I don't give two shits about Alec, Kim or their daughter. I haven't looked for a a single article about them since the media played the tape the first time.

Me either.

What I care about is the ignorance that attempts to minimize or excuse verbal and emotional abuse. It is appalling that so many people think that talking to another person, particularly a child, in this manner is not a big deal. Society, in general, are enablers of abusers. Their ignorance and silence on the issue allows it to perpetuate in darkness, further isolating its victims and destroying even more lives, hearts, futures, families, and souls - often in combination with financial health, careers, and physical bodies, not to mention children and their lives and futures, as they learn the behavior themselves by example.

I'm appalled by the people that are blowing this all out of proportion, and making up scenarios of victims that don't live in Bassinger's house, over this guy snapping out at his kid.

So lets all mind our own business and ignore the future generation of abusers and abuse victims that today's domestic terrorists are raising.

I just wish people DID understand how wrong this is and cared enough NOT to subject their own families to similar. But sadly, that is not the case.

Stormie

You obviously have issues and valid concerns about abuse of one another is modern society. BUT, don't dump it on Baldwin which is what this is about. I'm not going to martyr him for societies ills.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by BigV

glatt:

I find that style maddening too. But rather that further flatten my head and my hand in frustration, I make an adjustment.

Good tip. And I normally operate that way too, but for some reason this one was hard to let go.