What's upsetting you today?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

Yes, this is the outcome I've feared, one more way I've screwed up in my adult life.

No, it's how you were screwed over in your adult life. You make it sound like you were in charge of your adult life, when clearly you were not. Any mistakes you may have made were in the choices between two or more undesirable options.

Looks to me like she's intentionally putting herself in a situation where she will no longer have choices, and can abdicate responsibility for what happens from here on in.
I wonder if she's pregnant.

[footfootfoot]

@ preggers, EEEEK!

Ortho, How about the two of you getting into counseling together? Too close?

[Griff]

Now that Bruce has brought it up... as I didn't want to go there, you may want to continue to pay for one thing in her life while she's out of school, birth control.

[Nirvana]

You did all the right things O, your daughter made it to the age of 20 and now she has to fly on her own. She is an adult although it is my true belief that some do not get a full brain until they are 25. It must be hard to let go.

[DanaC]

And at that, the part of the brain that develops latest is the part that deals with a sense of consequence and impulse control

[orthodoc]

I have considered whether she may be pregnant. She has a pretty good form of birth control, unless she had it removed. She was home long enough at winter break for a pregnancy to become obvious, if her decision not to register for spring classes back in October was related to that. So - not likely, not right now. I don't discount the probability within the next year.

Clod, that's a great suggestion re checking if she formally withdrew or took a leave from the university. I'll check with her. She isn't registered for any classes right now so there's nothing left hanging, so to speak, but she may need to make a formal declaration of taking a leave. As for her relations with her dad, she seems to enjoy spending time with him, and he's made great efforts in the past year to be more involved, supportive, and to just spend 'fun' time with her. She doesn't idolize him. But I can see her unconsciously gravitating to controlling males.

Foot, I'd go to counseling with her but I doubt she'd be open to that right now ... plus she's a three-hour plane ride away. I have urged and all but begged her to get into counseling for herself.

[footfootfoot]

[Aliantha]

About the dishonesty part of it. I wouldn't take it too personally if I were you. No matter how old you are, you more than likely don't want to make a choice that you know will upset or disappoint your parents, and it's only as you get quite a bit older that you figure out that you can make these choices and explain your reasoning to your parents and then move on. Of course the issue of tuition changes things somewhat and i can see why you'd be annoyed that she didn't talk to you about it. Have you considered that maybe she just didn't want to worry you about it all when she could most likely clearly see that you were not coping so well with your own stresses without her adding hers?

I know it's hard to see your kids make what, in your own opinion, is a bad decision, but in the end, she has to make her own choices and live or die by them on her own.

I think we all as parents these days probably take too much control of our kids lives for too long. I say this because we, as the older generation/s sit around bitching about how inept the youth of today are, but we're the ones responsible because we've done way too much hand holding for way too long in a lot of cases.

She'll be ok ortho. Even if she takes a semester or two off, she'll be ok.

[Clodfobble]

On that note...

http://alameda.patch.com/blog_posts/...t-help-my-kids

(Originally brought to my attention by xoxoxoBruce, credit where credit is due.)

[orthodoc]

You know, I have never been a helicopter parent. I grew up with a lot of freedom even for the '60s and '70s and I've been on my own since I was 17. By that I mean supporting myself financially and figuring out that paying the rent in a given month meant I wasn't going to eat for the last three days of the month. Not 'on my own' as in living in a paid-for dorm room and having fun money to spend on pot and parties. My money was spent on eggs. I was not sheltered and I haven't sheltered my kids.

I am distressed that my daughter has made a decision that's going to make life tough for her. But that's her decision. I haven't said I'm going to send her money so she can be sheltered from the reality of life on a wage of $8/hour. I am distressed that she has comprehensively lied to me for months, while accepting gifts and as many enjoyable outings and excursions as could be fit into the holidays. That she spent a week entirely alone with me and never brought up her decision to change direction. Most of all, that she is leaving school to continue her life with a weird, red-flag 25 year old who dresses in wrestling costumes, pretends to have a Ghostbusters company, makes scary postings on his facebook page about burning and death, and has no discernible income.

I have not held my kids' hands. They all did their own laundry from the age of ten or twelve; they all learned to cook; they all learned to clean a house properly; they never had car privileges without commensurate responsibilities. They all had one shot at higher education (paid for, because my ex's income precluded the possibility of loans); deciding to ditch that, as my second son did, meant any further education was on their own dime. They all were expected to have jobs and save money for the things they wanted.

My daughter WILL live or die by her choices. But you know what? She might just die; don't be so nonchalant with the phrase. She has a red-flag boyfriend who is assiduously isolating her from family and now from her schooling. Things don't have to go well. She does NOT have to be ok. Let me repeat that. She does NOT have to be ok. Life does not always go well. Young women get murdered by abusive, controlling boyfriends. Young people end up on the streets and in lives of hell. Young people disappear, never to be found.

I've seen it all my life, in my profession. Things do NOT have to be okay. Life does not have to go well. I know this, and my ex knows this, very well. So pardon me if I'm distressed right now. There's more at stake than a small child climbing the ladder at a playground. All I can do is sit back, assure my daughter that I'm here in the background and she can always contact me, and hope she will be okay. But there is no guarantee.

[Nirvana]

I get your situation because my sister just did all of this with my niece. She got pregnant lived with him had a baby then married the asshole and was married less time than Kim Kardashian. My sister called me several times a week with some new drama in that relationship and I know she wanted to shut her door on several occasions. I told her I thought it was a mistake not to let her know she always has a place to go should she need to get away from that life.

You get along with your daughter and the right thing is to always keep the door [dialog] open. You are a good mom.

[DanaC]

Ach, Ortho, y'know I put my mum through pretty much the same shit when I was 18. He was a red flag boyfriend and I was throwing away a place at a prestigious university to go live in a bedsit (one room flatlet) with him and work in a plastics factory.

The only thing you can do is make sure those conduits for communication and emotional support remain open. For all the lessons she has inadvertently acquired about relationships and controlling men, there will have been other lessons in survival and self preservation.

[Pico and ME]

Ortho please try not to catastrophize so much. You dont know the future, but you do know that you provided your daughter with a well-adjusted childhood, right? She didnt come from a poverty-stricken, drug addicted family where she didnt learn the basics for good judgment and decision-making. Right?

[Trilby]

orthodoc-we are here for you.

she WILL figure it out---probably sooner rather than later.

[orthodoc]

I understand that I may appear to be catastrophizing, but I have reasons to dread what may be in store. For one, my profession is one that shows me how often things really do turn out catastrophically. It's a bit like being a cop. You see how badly things can go.

Secondly, my daughter had a difficult childhood. One of her brothers (my second son) had a diagnosis of early-onset bipolar disorder among other things, and was very violent throughout his childhood and teen years. He was admitted to hospital twice for trying to kill his younger brother. We had in-home help through the Wraparound program in our area but couldn't keep workers, because they couldn't handle my son. I looked into, but could not afford residential treatment. Our home was chaotic and violent and my daughter did not necessarily learn the basics of good decision-making; she learned to escape, avoid, and appease. This may sound unbelievable, but help is just not always available no matter what people think, and many, many families live with violent children where everyone is in perpetual fear and uncertainty.

So, no. My daughter emphatically did not have a 'well-adjusted' childhood, for many reasons. There are others that I prefer not to get into. Trauma doesn't come only from poverty or drug addiction. I fear for her because I don't think she has the tools to help her make sound, self-protective decisions at the moment.