Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week - Page 6

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:25 PM

I think this where you and I will have to agree to disagree Radar. We've had this conversation a number of times over the years and I don't believe either of us have moved our position any *smiles*

Radar · 10-31-2007, 06:47 PM

Which brings me full circle and explains why it's better for me to just disassociate myself with those who have views I find deeply offensive. It's a better solution than going columbine on them.

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:52 PM

And those are the only two options?

Radar · 10-31-2007, 07:15 PM

I can't help it. When someone says, "Sean Hannity told me to support the president and you're unpatriotic if you don't support the war in Iraq" my only options are to distance myself from them or smash their skull in.

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 07:17 PM

I see. I personally prefer a more middle of the road approach...there are people who actively campaign for racist politics...those I have nothing to do with. I do however have friends who hold mildly racist views.

Radar · 10-31-2007, 07:22 PM

I hate dishonesty, and I hate racism. So I really hate those who are dishonest about their racism....like those who say, "I don't hate Jews, I just hate Zionism". This is like saying, I don't hate Japanese people, I just hate Japan and all the people who live there or support its right to exist.

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 07:24 PM

No it's not. I know plenty of Jews in the UK are frustrated by the Zionist agenda and are dismayed by the zionist government's treatment of palestinians. One of them works with a Christian woman in my town and organises aid trips to Gaza.

Happy Monkey · 10-31-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

I hate dishonesty, and I hate racism. So I really hate those who are dishonest about their racism....like those who say, "I don't hate Jews, I just hate Zionism". This is like saying, I don't hate Japanese people, I just hate Japan and all the people who live there or support its right to exist.

Do you hate Palestinians, or do you hate their attempts to claim particular territory, and the tactics they use?

Radar · 10-31-2007, 07:44 PM

I don't hate the so-called Palestinian people. I wish them peace, prosperity, and even to be recognized as a nation by the U.N.. I do hate the fact that a significant number of them think it's ok to target women and children in shopping malls for murder. I do hate the fact that no matter how hard Israel tries to peacefully co-exist with them, they are unreasonable and want to wipe Israel off the map and kill as many Jews as possible. I hate the fact that they are more interested in murdering Jews than in peace. I hate the fact that they act as though Israel is a monster for defending itself when they are blowing up Israeli women and children. I hate that many of them are dishonest racists who make baseless and false accusations of apartheid against Israel.

I wish they would act like civilized people and work to build prosperity for themselves and friendship with their neighbors

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 07:47 PM

And the Israeli soldiers who have targetted and shot children?

What about the innocent palestinians whose homes have been destroyed and whose relatives have been killed?

Quote:

I do hate the fact that no matter how hard Israel tries to peacefully co-exist with them, they are unreasonable and want to wipe Israel off the map and kill as many Jews as possible

I see very little evidence of Israel attempting anysuch thing.

Happy Monkey · 10-31-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

I don't hate the so-called Palestinian people. I wish them peace, prosperity, and even to be recognized as a nation by the U.N.. I do hate the fact that a significant number of them [do repugnant things]

So you don't hate the people, but you do hate how a certain subset of them behaves with respect to disputes over territory.

Yet you claim that anti-Zionism is the same as anti-Semetism.

Radar · 10-31-2007, 08:09 PM

Israeli soldiers have never targeted and shot children. They have shot children who had bombs strapped to them, or who were using slings to hurl rocks at speeds that can kill a man. There's never been a case of Israeli soldiers planning an attack against women and children, but there are hundreds of cases of so-called Palestinian people doing exactly this.

Also, the so-called Palestinians who attack Jews, run and hide amongst so-called Palestinian women and children and endanger them so even though Israel does its best to avoid harming women and children, occasionally those who were endangered by terrorists get killed or caught up in the crossfire. Then the so-called Palestinian people claim they are victims of monsters.

As far as destroyed homes go, they were built in disputed territory. Israel has also destroyed the homes of Jewish settlers who have built in such territory.

The relatives killed were killed because they were taking part in the planning or attacking of Israeli people, or because they were endangered by their own people and they got caught up in it. They died not because of Israel's response, but because Israel was attacked in the first place.

You claim to have seen little evidence in Israel trying to peacefully co-exist with their neighbors. This can only mean your eyes are closed.

Israel has offered concession after concession after concession. Israel has offered land, money, support in becoming a state, etc. In 1996 Israel offered to return all land they had won in battles from 1967 forward, and to sponsor a nation of Palestine in the U.N. if only they would go a single week without killing Israeli people.

They couldn't do it. Why? Because they don't want peace. Israel has gone above and beyond. Israel has been patient, understanding, generous, and kind-hearted to those who want them destroyed. Israel has done more than any other country would do. No other nation on earth would allow themselves to be attacked for 60 straight years without simply having an all out war and completely destroying those who attack it.

Israel can't give any more than it already has. The so-called Palestinian people haven't given anything, haven't had anything stolen from them, haven't been victimized by anyone but their own people who put them in danger, and want nothing less than Israel to cease existing. This is unreasonable and even laughable.

Israel uses DEFENSIVE force, and the so-called Palestinian people use OFFENSIVE force.

Radar · 10-31-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

So you don't hate the people, but you do hate how a certain subset of them behaves with respect to disputes over territory.

Yet you claim that anti-Zionism is the same as anti-Semetism.

The overwhelming majority of so-called Palestinians are raised from birth to hate Israel and Jews. The subset we were discussing are those who actually carry out murders.

When you use deadly force in your defense, it's not murder. The so-called Palestinian people are not using DEFENSIVE force, they are using OFFENSIVE (attacking) force against the weakest members of the Israeli community, women and children.

I didn't say Anti-Zionism is the same as anti-semitism. I said Anti-Zionism = Anti-Jew. Arabs are also Semites.

Zionism is the belief that the state of Israel and its people have a right to exist without having its women and children blown to bits. Zionism has never harmed a single person on earth. Anti-Zionism on the other hand means you don't believe this nation has any right to exist or to defend itself when people attack them. It means you believe every nation on earth other than the Jewish one, has a right to exist and defend itself.

How is this NOT anti-Jew?

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 08:18 PM

From the Guardian newspaper:

Quote:

Palestinian doctors despair at rising toll of children shot dead by army snipers

As the carnage in Rafah escalates, bullet wounds belie the official Israeli line on killings of young teenagers

Chris McGreal in Rafah
Thursday May 20, 2004
The Guardian

The tiny hole buried under Asma Mughayar's thick black hair, just above her right ear, is an illusion, according to the Israeli army. So is her family's insistance that Asma, 16, and her younger brother Ahmed, were both shot through the head by an Israeli soldier as they fed their pigeons and collected the laundry from the roof of their home in Rafah refugee camp.
But their corpses tell a different story, as do the bodies of other children brought to Rafah's hospital and makeshift mortuaries even before yesterday's carnage, in which Israeli tanks and helicopters fired on a peaceful protest by Palestinians in the camp, killing 10 demonstrators, according to Palestinian paramedics.

Israel disputes the Mughayar family's account: that soldiers shot the children on Tuesday. Hours after their death, Israeli officials blamed the Palestinians, telling reporters that Asma and Ahmed had been killed in a "work accident" - a euphemism for bomb-makers blowing themselves up - or by Palestinian fighters who had left a landmine in the street.

"A preliminary investigation indicates they were killed by a bomb intended to be used against soldiers. It was set outside a building by Palestinians to hit an Israeli vehicle. This is probably what happened," a military spokesman said yesterday.

Dr Ali Moussa, head of Rafah hospital, is as furious at the claim as he is at Israel's assertion that almost all the 20 or more people killed during the army's seizure of the Tel al-Sultan district of the Rafah refugee camp were armed men.

"They are liars, liars, liars, because these children have bullet wounds to the head. There is no doubt about it," he says.

Dr Ahmed Abu Nkaria, who pronounced the Mughayar children dead, insists on proving the manner of their killing. He pulls Asma's body from the mortuary's refrigeration unit and fumbles through the teenager's hair to reveal the hole where the bullet entered above one ear and ripped a much larger wound as it emerged above the other.

"The Israeli propaganda is that they were killed in a work accident. These are the kinds of lies they tell all the time," he says. "They say all the dead are fighters. They say they do not deliberately kill children, but about a quarter of the dead from the first day of shooting are children. The evidence is here in the morgue. Does this girl look as if she was blown up by a bomb?"

Asma's body lies in the hospital mortuary unburied, like all the other dead from Tel al-Sultan, because their relatives are trapped in their homes by a curfew. Her 13-year-old brother's corpse is a short drive away in the cold-storage room of an Israeli-owned flower-growing company.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...220635,00.html

Happy Monkey · 10-31-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

I didn't say Anti-Zionism is the same as anti-semitism. I said Anti-Zionism = Anti-Jew. Arabs are also Semites.

Zionism is the belief that the state of Israel and its people have a right to exist without having its women and children blown to bits. Zionism has never harmed a single person on earth. Anti-Zionism on the other hand means you don't believe this nation has any right to exist or to defend itself when people attack them. It means you believe every nation on earth other than the Jewish one, has a right to exist and defend itself.

How is this NOT anti-Jew?

Because "Zionism" is not "Judaism". Israel is a majority-Jewish nation with aspects of Judaism enshrined in law, but it does not speak for all Jews on Earth. You can oppose Zionism and support Jews. You can support Zionism and support Jews. You can be anti-Jew, and support Zionism as a way to get the Jews out of your own country or a way to instigate Biblical Armageddon. Or you can be anti-Jew and anti-Zionism.

Personally, I do support Israel's right to exist and defend itself. I also support the USA's right to defend itself. I don't pretend that either nation always does so in appropriate ways, and I don't think that the behavior of the enemies of either nation excuses any of that nation's bad behavior.

10-31-2007, 06:47 PM	#77
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Which brings me full circle and explains why it's better for me to just disassociate myself with those who have views I find deeply offensive. It's a better solution than going columbine on them. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 07:15 PM	#79
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I can't help it. When someone says, "Sean Hannity told me to support the president and you're unpatriotic if you don't support the war in Iraq" my only options are to distance myself from them or smash their skull in. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 07:22 PM	#81
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I hate dishonesty, and I hate racism. So I really hate those who are dishonest about their racism....like those who say, "I don't hate Jews, I just hate Zionism". This is like saying, I don't hate Japanese people, I just hate Japan and all the people who live there or support its right to exist. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 07:44 PM	#84
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I don't hate the so-called Palestinian people. I wish them peace, prosperity, and even to be recognized as a nation by the U.N.. I do hate the fact that a significant number of them think it's ok to target women and children in shopping malls for murder. I do hate the fact that no matter how hard Israel tries to peacefully co-exist with them, they are unreasonable and want to wipe Israel off the map and kill as many Jews as possible. I hate the fact that they are more interested in murdering Jews than in peace. I hate the fact that they act as though Israel is a monster for defending itself when they are blowing up Israeli women and children. I hate that many of them are dishonest racists who make baseless and false accusations of apartheid against Israel. I wish they would act like civilized people and work to build prosperity for themselves and friendship with their neighbors __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 08:09 PM	#87
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Israeli soldiers have never targeted and shot children. They have shot children who had bombs strapped to them, or who were using slings to hurl rocks at speeds that can kill a man. There's never been a case of Israeli soldiers planning an attack against women and children, but there are hundreds of cases of so-called Palestinian people doing exactly this. Also, the so-called Palestinians who attack Jews, run and hide amongst so-called Palestinian women and children and endanger them so even though Israel does its best to avoid harming women and children, occasionally those who were endangered by terrorists get killed or caught up in the crossfire. Then the so-called Palestinian people claim they are victims of monsters. As far as destroyed homes go, they were built in disputed territory. Israel has also destroyed the homes of Jewish settlers who have built in such territory. The relatives killed were killed because they were taking part in the planning or attacking of Israeli people, or because they were endangered by their own people and they got caught up in it. They died not because of Israel's response, but because Israel was attacked in the first place. You claim to have seen little evidence in Israel trying to peacefully co-exist with their neighbors. This can only mean your eyes are closed. Israel has offered concession after concession after concession. Israel has offered land, money, support in becoming a state, etc. In 1996 Israel offered to return all land they had won in battles from 1967 forward, and to sponsor a nation of Palestine in the U.N. if only they would go a single week without killing Israeli people. They couldn't do it. Why? Because they don't want peace. Israel has gone above and beyond. Israel has been patient, understanding, generous, and kind-hearted to those who want them destroyed. Israel has done more than any other country would do. No other nation on earth would allow themselves to be attacked for 60 straight years without simply having an all out war and completely destroying those who attack it. Israel can't give any more than it already has. The so-called Palestinian people haven't given anything, haven't had anything stolen from them, haven't been victimized by anyone but their own people who put them in danger, and want nothing less than Israel to cease existing. This is unreasonable and even laughable. Israel uses DEFENSIVE force, and the so-called Palestinian people use OFFENSIVE force. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 06:25 PM	#76
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I think this where you and I will have to agree to disagree Radar. We've had this conversation a number of times over the years and I don't believe either of us have moved our position any smiles

10-31-2007, 06:52 PM	#78
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	And those are the only two options?

10-31-2007, 07:17 PM	#80
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I see. I personally prefer a more middle of the road approach...there are people who actively campaign for racist politics...those I have nothing to do with. I do however have friends who hold mildly racist views.

10-31-2007, 07:24 PM	#82
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	No it's not. I know plenty of Jews in the UK are frustrated by the Zionist agenda and are dismayed by the zionist government's treatment of palestinians. One of them works with a Christian woman in my town and organises aid trips to Gaza.

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