The best thing about Arnold's victory

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by Radar
To abandon (a military post, for example) in violation of orders or an oath

When exactly did Bush do this? I need a general timeframe, as well as the specific orders or oath he violated.

[Radar]

No it's not. It's a cold, hard fact.

Prove it.

I see, so this whole affair is being paid for with profits generated by W's warmongering

No, I work in Commercial Sattelite (Electron Dynamics) part. Not the military part.

Who are "the people"?

"The People" are the same people referred to in every other part of the Constitution when "the people" are mentioned.

Does this mean I can mount a machine gun on a turret to the roof of my truck, and drive around town? Can I bring it into a high school, day care, or airport?

Why not? I don't see anything wrong with any of those. You're having or carrying a gun doesn't endanger others regardless of where you have it.

What sort of arms? Apparently you seem to think this includes thermonuclear warheads. Most people don't.

Any arms the government has access to.

When exactly did Bush do this? I need a general timeframe, as well as the specific orders or oath he violated.

Roughly 1971-1973

If you would like actual copies of letters written by his commanding officer regarding his desertion from the military and a list of which specific orders he violated in the UCMJ feel free to visit this website.

http://www.awolbush.com


He has also violated his oath to uphold and defend the Constitution because he has violated the Constitution more than all previous presidents combined. He championed the single most unconstitutional piece of legislation in the history of the United States (The Patriot Act), he created a new unconstitutional part of government (Homeland Security), he started an unprovoked war even though our military is for DEFENSE only, etc.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by Radar
If you would like actual copies of letters written by his commanding officer regarding his desertion from the military and a list of which specific orders he violated in the UCMJ feel free to visit this website.

http://www.awolbush.com

That's a rather amusing site you've found there. I didn't have time to wade through all of it, but it seems that its argument is contained entirely in this letter.

Unfortunately, it contains no record of desertion. His commanding officers "can't remember" seeing him at drill, decades after the fact. That's hardly what any non-biased person would call proof.

It also states his being a citizen of Texas as "proof" that he didn't drill in Alabama. But as I'm sure you well know, since you've done so much research in this area, you are not required to be a citizen of the state you attend drill with.

[OnyxCougar]

You know, I have completely avoided this whole area of the Cellar until this morning.

The only reason I came in is that I saw Radar as the last to post in a thread, and I'd heard so much about him, but had never seen one of his posts.

Now I know why I didn't come into this thread before.

[Radar]

That's a rather amusing site you've found there. I didn't have time to wade through all of it, but it seems that its argument is contained entirely in this letter.

Try again. The letters I'm talking about were written at the time. Not afterward. These records not only have an undeniable record of his desertion but also contain actual copies of the letters written by his commanding officers during the years in question.

This time read the following:

Suspended from flying August 1972...

Annual Officer Effectiveness Report, 5/2/73: "Not Observed" from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973...

In June of 1973, Air Force HQ asks for more information...

...and in November, Major Rufus Martin tells them he has none to give.

And you can also check out other documents relating to the Military records of George Walker Bush HERE

Now I know why I didn't come into this thread before.

I don't know you personally, but if this is your attitude, I'm glad I don't.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I couldn't read any of those links.

[Happy Monkey]

First link exerpt:

6. Verbal orders of the Momdr on 1 Aug 72 suspending 1STLT GEORGE W BUSH, XXXXXXXXX, ANGUS (Not on EAU), TX ANG, Nq 147 Ftr C. Ellington AFB, Houston TX, from flying status are confirmed, exigencies of the service having been such as to preclude the publication of competent written orders in advance. Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination.

Second Link exerpt:

Lt Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of report. A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama.

The other two links are a request for info, and a reply that: "Report for this period not availible for administrative reasons". Nothing was mentioned about the equivalent service in Alabama either way.

[russotto]

In other words, you've got nothing at all to indicate desertion.

[Radar]

He left his post without permission and didn't come back. He went to another state to work on his political career and never reported for duty elsewhere. In other words he is a deserter.

Item #3

Item 18. Ratings must be entered on this officer in Sections V & VI. An AF Fm 77a should be requested from the training unit so this officer can be rated in the position he held. This officer should have been reassigned in May 1972 since he no longer is training in his AFSC or with his unit of assignment.

Item #4

Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73.
Report for this period not available for administrative reasons.

From his Suspension from flying...

Verbal orders of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72 suspending 1STLT GEORGE W BUSH, XXXXXXXX, Angus (Not on EAD), TX ANG, Hq 147 Ftr Gp, Ellington AFB, Houston TX, from flying status are confirmed, exigencies of the service having been such as to preclude the publication of competent written orders in advance. Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination. Off will complay with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13.

There are other supporting documents like penalties for poor attendance, discharge papers, the days in which he was credited, etc. proving that he was indeed a military deserter. He was also a coward and still is one. Daddy got him out of the Vietnam war. It's out of the question for him to go to war, but it's just fine for him to send others to die in a war, even when it's an unconstitutional use of our military. He's a hypocrite, a mass murderer, a coward, a military deserter, an idiot, and a lying weasel. He thinks when he used drugs it's a "youthful indescretion" but when others do it they should go to jail.

He wants to promote peace by starting wars, balance the budget through record setting deficit spending, help the economy by costing us jobs, defend our freedom by attacking our civil rights, uphold and defend the constitution by completely ignoring it and violating it at every turn, etc.

[Happy Monkey]

Is there any way to verify that he didn't serve in Alabama? Obviously, it isn't likely that there is a report saying "George Bush didn't show up today", but is there a report that should exist but doesn't?

[Radar]

Why would he be in Alabama? He wasn't stationed there. He wasn't transfered there. His assignments are listed on one of the forms and it says from November 30, 1969 to October 1, 1973 he was assigned to Ellington Air Force Base in Texas.

Another one of the forms is a request for transfer by Bush, and another is when his transfer was turned down.

He left anyway and didn't come back.

[Happy Monkey]

I'm just pointing out the weasel area. People will claim that he wasn't AWOL if the document saying "A civilian occupation made it necessary for him to move to Montgomery, Alabama. He cleared this base on 15 May 1972 and has been performing equivalent training in a non flying status with the 187 Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly ANG Base, Alabama." is true. I was hoping there was evidence that he was actually NOT "performing equivalent training" when the author thought he was.

[Radar]

Me too. But I think the reports were sugar coated due to the political connection of GWB. He wouldn't have even gotten into the Air National Guard if it weren't for daddy's influence.

[Undertoad]

Because YOU would never do such an evil thing as avoiding conscripted service?

[russotto]

You've still got nothing to indicate he's a deserter. The most you've got is that

1) He missed a physical. This is not desertion

2) One part of the military thought he was in one place when he was in another. This, too, is not desertion.