WHAT GROUP ANNOYS YOU THE MOST ?

[Trilby]

Ok, Ok--in the interest of NOT offending the gods of Right, Good and Common Sense (the ones noodle knows intimately), let me say this: Feel free to imagine rape as the logical conclusion to your own definition of provocative clothing.

Just don't sit in any jury.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

One thing I liked about the cellar was I thought there were 'no sides'???
...

I think Noodle just defined "the lines". Ask him.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Just don't insinuate that's it's ok to rape her because she's dressed provocatively.

It's never okay to rape someone. By telling someone that it's a bad idea to play in traffic, are you insinuating that it's okay for someone to run over them?

I'd like to see women dress more conservatively.

Why?

Tell us who is more caustic than UG and Maggie - both nasty conservatives?

UG and Maggie hold their own, to be sure. But it could be said they fight fire with fire.

And, lucky you, they're all on your side.

Examples? Difficulty: don't cut out the preceding post.

And gun control. Bringing up gun control makes the conservatives *crazy*.

Not around here. Some places, yes. This is a guide to the Cellar, though.

[mrnoodle]

Nao: observe.

Originally Posted by Brianna

Ok, Ok--in the interest of NOT offending the gods of Right, Good and Common Sense (the ones noodle knows intimately)

Hmm. Not quite an ad hominem attack, but definitely setting the stage for confrontation. How shall I respond?

A) fuck you
B) mea culpa, you're so right, I take it all back, whatever it was.
C) skip this part and go on to the actual point of the argument (hoping that one will appear)

A is the choice of kindergarteners. No point to it, other than satisfying the base urge to "get back" at someone who's just thrown a rock at you.

B is what they want you to say, but you won't be believed if you say it, anyway. Will probably achieve no more than A, and would be a lie.

C is the choice of the survival-minded conservative.

let me say this: Feel free to imagine rape as the logical conclusion to your own definition of provocative clothing.

Just don't sit in any jury.

As often happens, the argument has been twisted to fit a paradigm that is no longer accurate. You know you didn't say this, they know you didn't say this. But now you can't continue to make your original argument, because you have to defend yourself against the new allegation -- "You are pro-rape". You thought you said, "It's not really smart to walk around with your tits out", but you have now been informed that what you actually said was, "Rapists have the right to victimize women with their tits out."

Your choices:

A) repeat yourself ad nauseum until one of you gets bored and leaves
B) enter a sexual predator rehabilitation facility, because you now know that you are a rapist at heart
C) do nothing; let them "win" and just be content in the knowledge that they're being deliberately obtuse, and to their own detriment.

I suppose any of the choices will work, depending on your level of commitment and spare time.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

... But now you can't continue to make your original argument, because you have to defend yourself against the new allegation -- "You are pro-rape". You thought you said, "It's not really smart to walk around with your tits out", but you have now been informed that what you actually said was, "Rapists have the right to victimize women with their tits out."

Nao didn't say, "It's not really smart..." - that has been said by other posters on other threads and I certainly didn't pick them up on it. Nao said that (to paraphrase) women who have their tits out is asking for rape.

I don't need to exaggerate that by claiming he said rapists were right, or had the right or whatever. I find that hard enough to swallow exactly as it was written.

I don't think this is anything to do with left wing, right wing or a perceived liberal bias on my part. I don't even think it's because I'm a woman, although I concede it may be.

[mrnoodle]

"You're asking for it" is accurate. Not in the sense that it excuses the criminal, but in that you have unnecessarily set yourself up as a target. You have the right to keep your door unlocked at night. It's a shame that you can't do it. But if you do, you're asking to be burgled. The burglar is still the criminal, the burglar should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The burglar is 100% to blame for 100% of the crime. None of that makes you less of an idiot for leaving your door unlocked.

[Trilby]

noodle, I said to feel free to Imagine rape as the logical outcome to provocative dress, however you wish to define it. I didn't say I was ok with rape or advised for it.

Who, exactly, is twisting the words here?

and, please, do define what is slutty dress. To a guy in Australia it's not wearing chador or whatever cover-up he's into.

[Trilby]

also--just for the hell of it: by your logic, strippers are begging to be raped. It's ok to rape them? Coz, they didn't "lock the front door"-? To be a stripper is to be an idiot? Asking for it?

In England they've a newspaper that prints photos of topless women, called Page 3 Girls, I believe. are they asking for it, too?

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

"You're asking for it" is accurate. Not in the sense that it excuses the criminal, but in that you have unnecessarily set yourself up as a target. You have the right to keep your door unlocked at night. It's a shame that you can't do it. But if you do, you're asking to be burgled. The burglar is still the criminal, the burglar should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The burglar is 100% to blame for 100% of the crime. None of that makes you less of an idiot for leaving your door unlocked.

I have trouble with the phrase "asking for it" in the first place. To me it does attribute at least partial blame to the victim.

So I will use - increasing your risk

If a woman walks home alone, especially in a lonely are - she is increasing her risk of being violently attacked
If she gets in a car with a stranger - she increases her risk of attack
If she is alone and obviously drunk - she increases her risk

All sad but true

But I don't think you can compare a woman's clothing to leaving your house unlocked. The woman is responsible for maintaining her own security - the equivilant of locking her windows and doors - stay in company, get a cab home, stay sober enough to know what's going on around you. But why should she not choose not to buy a big house with a well maintained garden, a poolhouse and a double garage? It attracts the eye, it makes a statement, and it may attract more criminals - but it's not asking for it.

Works better with cars but thought I should try for consistency of allusion.

[Elspode]

No, they're *advertising* for it, but not by force. Think of a provocatively dressed female along the same lines as a restaurant bearing a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to *anyone*". Yes, food is available, no, *you* can't have it...not unless you're dressed nicely, behave yourself, and probably have a big pile of money.

A girl has a right to reserve her loose morals/sexual generosity for the target of her choosing. Letting everyone know that it is probably available is just broadening one's possible selection pool. It is supposed to be understood that only select individuals need inquire.

*Edit* - Rape is bad, m'kay?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Elspode

*Edit* - Rape is bad, m'kay?

Yes, but ONLY if the rapee is a woman society defines as 'respectable'--a woman with a shadow on her soul and a tit hanging out? well, she deserves what she gets. Let's not think about the many underlying causes for that exposed tit, let's just blame her for exposing it! (no need to implicate America for being so f****** Puritan in the first place)

God, it's so simple!

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Brianna

... and a tit hanging out? well, she deserves what she gets. Let's not think about the many underlying causes for that exposed tit, let's just blame her for exposing it!

Were you more affected by that Janet Jackson performance than you've admitted before?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Were you more affected by that Janet Jackson performance than you've admitted before?

[/tragic voice/]

"yes! Yes, I was! I was sooooo hoping for a shot of Timberlake's crotch! And what did I get? A middle-aged woman's TIT! It almost made me go out and rape somebody!"

[end/tragic voice/]

[Elspode]

Brianna, you know as well as I do that sex outside of holy matrimony is an affront to Jehova; an abomination of Man. Therefore, harlots reap what they sow when they dress in a provocative and non-demure fashion.

Now...who wants to see my new line of designer burquas and veils? I also sell belly dancing accessories, but we make you sign a waiver saying that you won't sue us if you're raped while wearing them. After all, you would be scantily clad and gyrating provocatively, and you'd be just asking for it.

[mrnoodle]

*sigh*

C

C

/exit