Russian attack on country of Georgia

[piercehawkeye45]

The dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan was more of an attack against the USSR then Japan. It really makes sense when you think about it. Both countries knew a stand off was going to happen, Japan's oil supply was nearly zero (aka they were beaten and they knew it), Japan was trying to get a conditional surrender, the USSR, the same USSR that sliced through Germany, just declared war on Japan, and neither the US or Japan wanted a North and South Japan.

Historians agree that the war was going to end by the end of the month. Just that if it was held off until later, Japan most likely would have split in similar fashion to Germany,without the British and French sectors of course, because during the few days the USSR was at war with Japan there was no stopping it.

In defense of the US, no one knew just how powerful and symbolic the atomic bomb was going to be but it does show how far a country will go to get the upper hand in a standoff such as the one between the US and USSR.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Historians agree that the war was going to end by the end of the month.

Care to cite a source for that bullshit?

[lookout123]

revisionist historians agree. of course, they also believe that Custer winked at Sitting Bull so deserved what he got.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Care to cite a source for that bullshit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_...ly_unnecessary

http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Enemy-S.../dp/0674016939

Originally Posted by lookout123

revisionist historians agree. of course, they also believe that Custer winked at Sitting Bull so deserved what he got.

One of the most notable individuals with this opinion was then-General of the Army Dwight D. Eisenhower. He wrote in his memoir The White House Years:

"In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_...ly_unnecessary

Other U.S. military officers who disagreed with the necessity of the bombings include General of the Army Douglas MacArthur, Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy (the Chief of Staff to the President), Brigadier General Carter Clarke (the military intelligence officer who prepared intercepted Japanese cables for U.S. officials),[68] and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet.[69

[lookout123]

OK, so before those bombs were dropped Japan was ready to surrender and there was no expected need for allied forces to land troops in Japan?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_...ly_unnecessary

Of which the title is. "Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki".
That tells me historians do not agree

http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Enemy-S.../dp/0674016939

He has mined Japanese and Russian literature and documentation and, despite much that is based on surmise, provides fresh insight into the extraordinary inability of Japanese leaders to surrender, and into Stalin's machinations aimed at maximizing Soviet territorial gains in East Asia.

So after 60 years and detailed research into Jap and Red archives, he's come up with this surmise.
Now, you think Truman should have had the same surmise, with access to neither? Get real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_...ly_unnecessary

That's the same link as the first one. Ike was in Europe, hardly in a position to know what was happening in Japan. Don't forget, while we are at war, the military brass are heros. But when the war ends they are yesterdays news, and sometimes unemployed.

The bottom line is, your statement;

Russia and the former USSR have been bitter enemies ever since the end of WWII and the US has shown that it will be willing to do anything to get the upper hand in this war including dropping atomic bombs on already beaten countries and supplying Islamic extremist with weapons to fight against their Soviet invaders.

is preposterous.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The bottom line is, your statement; is preposterous.

How is the statement preposterous?

Japan was an already beaten country* and whether the use of the atomic bomb is debatable or not; Japan was beat. My other statement, the US giving weapons and money to Islamic extremists to fight against Soviet invaders, is correct as well. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan shows that.

I'm not trying to pull off the "America is all evil and everything bad now is a result of its policies" statement, because that is bullshit, but we are in no way the good guys either. We are just watching out for our national interests (or corporate if you wish).


* - For Japan ready to surrender, if Truman changed his stance from "unconditional" to "conditional", the Japanese probably would have surrendered because from what I understand, their were seven people making the decisions on whether Japan surrendered or not: 3 military advisers, 3 other advisers, and the emperor. The three military advisers did not want to surrender, the three other advisers did, and the emperor didn't because he would then lose the ability to rule for himself and his lineage. So it was a very close decision at the moment and changing "unconditional" to "conditional" would have changed the emperors vote.

Originally Posted by lookout123

OK, so before those bombs were dropped Japan was ready to surrender and there was no expected need for allied forces to land troops in Japan?

They surrendered after the dropping of two atomic bombs. I really doubt a full scale invasion would be needed since we had them blockaded, they knew they were beat, and they had the best two armies in the world coming at them from both sides. Germany didn't stand a chance and neither did Japan. Everyone was just delaying the inevitable.

Originally Posted by UT

Japan wasn't the sort of nation to fight to the bitter end?

Of course, and that is why the Japanese have been erased off the face the Earth...

The Japanese were prideful, but a few insane military leaders don't necessarily mean the whole population thinks a certain way. Even though it is on a much smaller scale, the pride in defending "Islam" has many similarities and I can guarantee that Muslims won't fight to the very end. The majority will adopt western culture the first chance they get. I can't see how the Japanese were that much different since they are VERY westernized nation at the moment.

[regular.joe]

Doing a little back reading. Wikipedia would never be allowed as a vetted source of information, at least not by my teachers. Neither would the internet. We have to crack books.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_...ly_unnecessary

http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Enemy-S.../dp/0674016939





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_...ly_unnecessary

[classicman]

Sorry PH - the way I read it was that you were implying that we were willing to drop the bomb now. "in this war including dropping atomic bombs"

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

Sorry PH - the way I read it was that you were implying that we were willing to drop the bomb now. "in this war including dropping atomic bombs"

Whereas America would not drop an atomic bomb in Georgia, it was sure ready and may have planned a nuclear attack on Iran. Adm Fallon was quite blunt about saying he stopped an attack on Iran that coincided with a sudden concentration of aircraft carriers in the Gulf. That bunker busting nuclear bomb demanded by the George Jr administration back in 2003 was probably ready for deployment. To those who see war as the only solution - who would go to war without a strategic objective - Iran would have been a perfect testing ground for their new bomb.

A nuclear bomb would have made a statement of America's will - or how America views and must save the world.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by classicman

Sorry PH - the way I read it was that you were implying that we were willing to drop the bomb now. "in this war including dropping atomic bombs"

Nah, I have no idea what the actual conversations are behind the closed doors.

Oh Classic, tw might be talking about this:

Revealed: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran

[classicman]

I love how you are the only one knowing what America is/or is not planning to do - You really must be in the loop. Since no one else here has access to this valuable proprietary info please share the source with the rest of us.

[tw]

Originally Posted by classicman

I love how you are the only one knowing what America is/or is not planning to do

If classicman did not entertain a wacko extremists bias, then he read this even in the Cellar. A sudden concentration of at least four American aircraft carriers appeared at the same time that Cheney was preaching war-mongering rhetoric and fears about Iran's non-existent atomic bomb.

Oh. Fox News and Rush Limbaugh did not report it? Later, Adm Fallon, commander of Central Command at that time, says he stopped an American attack on Iran. Was he talking about an attack that involved many American aircraft carriers? Well, classicman did not even know about that gaggle of American carriers including Stennis, Truman, Nimitz, and other ships including Marine assault carriers Bataan and Boxer. classicman also did not read Adm Fallon's statement. All this was public knowledge available only to those who know by learning. And still classicman did not bother to learn facts. classicman would again attack others rather than admit he was again ignorant. classicman - did the extremist party propaganda network forget to inform you about an event 16 months ago? Or is it just easy to look smart by attacking the messenger?

People who also do not deny American torture and international kidnapping also knew this in March 2007. classicman ignored read news that contradicts his political agenda? What are we doing in Iraq?

So how do you and UG greet one another? Zieg Heil or Welcome Comrade?

[classicman]

That isn't the U.S. that's Israel.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Tw is always ready to demonstrate how big a nut he really is. Coconuts aren't in it! The man is still deranged enough to love any foreign tyrant, anywhere, any time (Any pics at home of George, or Richard, the Third?) rather than for the democracies where his sympathies should lie... or would if he acted and thought like a human being. Tyrant-lovers should be abominations even to themselves, and hasten to suicide to clean up our lovely world.