Pentagon surveys troops on DADT (again)

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

And to Merc...

Although we've disagreed on many issues over the past few months,
I'm very pleased that you and I have been in agreement on this issue.
It was originally your words that prompted me to start this thread
I'm very pleased, indeed.

Agreed.

[Lamplighter]

Here's a nice story to go along with Obama's signing ceremony,
and to finish off this effort.

Walker Burttschell, a gay Miami Beach man discharged from the Marines in 2003,
shook Barack Obama's hand moments after the president signed repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell.'

"Great,'' Burttschell said of the moment. "That’s the least I can say. It was overwhelming.
It’s a part of history. To see the president sign it and say it’s done was amazing."

Burttschell, 28, said the White House invited him to the signing this weekend,
after the Senate voted Saturday to repeal 'don't ask, don't tell.' The House voted to repeal last week.
He arrived in Washington on Monday night and the next day attended a House ceremony at the Capitol,
in which Speaker Nancy Pelosi gave him a gold coin with the speaker's seal on one side, her signature on the other.

Tuesday morning, Burttschell attended the signing ceremony with a close friend
-- a gay active-duty Marine major still in the closet.
Burttschell said that immediately after Obama signed the repeal,
the Marine major "grabbed me and dragged me down the aisle."

The closeted Marine reached out to Obama.
"The first person to shake his hand was a Marine who was not out until today.
A powerful statement,'' Burttschell said.
"He introduced me to the president as a Marine and [Obama] said, 'Good fight, Marine!'

Read more: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/gayso...#ixzz18sEeeden

[TheMercenary]

Wow, I am surprised this guy got away with this. It was not that long ago. I see an early retirement for him in the next 30 days. The problem is they are going to have to find a new captain for the ship before it leaves.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...-due-to-videos

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Wow, I am surprised this guy got away with this. It was not that long ago. I see an early retirement for him in the next 30 days. The problem is they are going to have to find a new captain for the ship before it leaves.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...-due-to-videos

Merc, your comments and link must not refer to the post above it,
but are starting a new drift, unrelated to DADT.

If it is DADT, I don't see the connection.
If not, the link shows the military has still some foolish officers in command.

Since I hope and believe the repeal of DADT will be lead
to changing hearts and minds in both the military and civilian life,
I'm starting to wonder which minority group will be the next
to become the targets of the bigots.

I'm sure the film industry can come up with new epithets
for the DI's to use in their "boot camp" training scenes.
Then we will have another way to age-date war movies.

[TheMercenary]

It is related because here we have a major commander publicly making biased and derogatory remarks on a public ships tv channel against gay and women. It was out of line. But yet he got away with it for quite some time with no obvious repercussions. It is completely relevant to the thread.

[Lamplighter]

OK, gotcha

[TheMercenary]

When you have attitudes like that coming from the command it will breed violence and support those who have really bigoted attitudes towards the needed change. Further it may alienate those who would other wise step up and come forward when needed to support their fellow sailors, who they themselves may not be gay, but who might otherwise be afraid, because of peer and command pressure to not do the right thing. If the commander is publicly making derogatory remarks against gays the last thing a person is going to do is go against that commanders feelings by reporting or supporting those around them. Command Climate is everything in the military. It makes or breaks organizations.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I'm sure the film industry can come up with new epithets for the DI's to use in their "boot camp" training scenes.

It's maggots, not faggots.

[TheMercenary]

"I see an early retirement for him in the next 30 days."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/04...bright-future/

[Lamplighter]

I've not followed this story on Honors.
If the movie event was several years ago:

1) Why was he even promoted from 2nd to 1st command (May 2010) ?

2) Who is over-riding his promotion and forcing his "retirement" ?

3) Does it link directly to the repeal of DADT, or is that coincidental ?

[Big Sarge]

I think it is politically motivated. I watched the videos & they are no worse than what you see on Comedy Central.

[xoxoxoBruce]

But a US warship is not comedy central, at least I hope not. Location, location, location.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I've not followed this story on Honors.
If the movie event was several years ago:

1) Why was he even promoted from 2nd to 1st command (May 2010) ?

2) Who is over-riding his promotion and forcing his "retirement" ?

3) Does it link directly to the repeal of DADT, or is that coincidental ?

1) The incident wasn't vigorously contested; so, the promotion went through based upon the remainder of his service record. At the time, gay sailors contesting it could have been construed as violating DADT, straight sailors contesting it as ombudsmen could have been construed as failing to report a violation (guilt by association), and straight sailors contesting it autonomously could have been construed as supporting what was then considered to be a detriment to military service. No one has a right to serve in the military and no one has a right to a security clearance (which may be required to hold federal job positions both military and civilian). Security clearances are very political.

2) His retirement will be brought about by all those in his chain of command and political oversight committees who are concerned with military personnel recruitment and retention. Captain Honor has become a PR nightmare.

3) Our all volunteer military is overextended. Prerequisites for military service changes under such circumstances: age requirements are broadened, education requirements are lowered, some criminal backgrounds are waivered, females work in close combat roles ... etc. The implementation of DADT and its eventual repeal come about because of neither kind heartedness nor fairness by the military hierarchy and politicos. It came about just as the other changes and waivers did, because they desperately needed skills that are possessed by some who would not otherwise be eligible for military service. Captain Honor's command style became an obstacle to that objective through the specific topics he made light of and the timing of the DADT repeal.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

It's maggots, not faggots.

I feel a bit sorry for Honors; he has done a lot of excellent service, and had he been no more than a junior officer these videos would get him a moderate smack on the wrist. But you just can't have a 2IC or a captain behaving like that. I'd like to see him resign "voluntarily" rather than be pushed.

[Lamplighter]

Sexbon, thank you for such a well-composed reply.