Pentagon surveys troops on DADT (again)

[sexobon]

Like the old adage: We don't care who they're humping as long as they can hump a ruck and shoot their load.

[Lamplighter]

Sort of legal questions...

Can military personnel be married "on base" and not designate
their marriage to the particular State where they are based/living ?

If so, would this be a way to avoid DOMA ?

[BigV]

I have to say regarding SCOTUS's finding that DOMA was unconstitutional prompted many questions as to how various federal entities would handle the new decision. In all of the initial reports from the IRS, Social Security, etc, there were various explanations about how they'd have to review the relevant laws, examine the policies and how they could be changed, "we'll look into that and get back to you" kind of sounds. But not the Defense Department. Chuck Hagel said that morning that the DoD will immediately extend full benefits to spouses in same sex marriages. Period.

Bravo! In addition to being personally pleased with the decision itself, it gives me comfort to think that the armed services charged with defending me are far sighted enough to have a plan in place, ready to be enacted at the moment it needs to be enacted.

Certainly there have been problems associated with our military, but so many of them (channeling tw) can be traced to their political leaders' (top management) poor decisions (/tw). This is a political/legal decision too, but an unambiguous one easily understood. They understood what could have happened, learned what did happen, and took action accordingly.

[regular.joe]

Jesus H. Christ! If we can extend benefits to married men and women, why should there be any problems in extending them to men and women married to men and women?! This is why the military can extend benefits the next day. We are not inclined to play around with the bullshite. If you are married, you are married. Lets move on to the important matters.

[tw]

Let's not forget what Christy recently said. He said a gay or lesbian couple is equivalent to incest. Equivalent to a brother and sister having sex. He stuck by that comment even when challenged multiple times by the press. He only back off that comment the next day when public opinion finally made it obvious he had just promoted hate.

Even the Pope does not have Christy's extremist Catholic beliefs.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by tw

Let's not forget what Christy recently said. He said a gay or lesbian couple is equivalent to incest. Equivalent to a brother and sister having sex. He stuck by that comment even when challenged multiple times by the press. He only back off that comment the next day when public opinion finally made it obvious he had just promoted hate.

Even the Pope does not have Christy's extremist Catholic beliefs.

I'd like a cite for this please. Everything I could find indicated that Gov Corbett, not Gov Christie was the one that made that comparison, gay marriage==incest.

[tw]

Originally Posted by BigV

I'd like a cite for this please.

You are correct. My mistake. It was Corbett - Governor of PA.

Don't know why I confused the two. When Corbett said that, my first impression was that of another Santorum. The Senator who was roundly voted out of office after so many extremist religously inspired actions - including imposing himself on the family of Terry Schiavo.

I believe Corbett is also a Catholic with religious beliefs that even the Pope does not support.

[Lamplighter]

I'd like a cite for this please

Christie does have his own views, and expresses them...

NY Times
By KATE ZERNIKE
Published: August 14, 2013

New Jersey Court to Hear Same-Sex Marriage Case

<snip>
Mr. Christie, a Roman Catholic who is considered a leading contender
for the Republican presidential nomination, has been a staunch opponent
of same-sex marriage. He vetoed the bill legalizing same-sex marriage passed
by the Legislature last year, and Democrats have been unable to win enough
Republican votes to override his veto.

In June, Mr. Christie said that the Supreme Court made a “bad decision”
in extending federal benefits to couples in same-sex marriages,
saying it was “incredibly insulting” to overturn the 1996 law defining
marriage as between a man and a woman.

Instead, Mr. Christie has argued that voters should decide the issue
of same-sex marriage in a ballot question, but Democratic legislators say that civil rights
should not be decided by referendum.

A Quinnipiac poll after the Supreme Court decision showed that
about 60 percent of New Jersey voters supported same-sex marriage.

The poll results don't matter. The issue has been decided by the USSC.

It really doesn't matter what Christie's personal opinions or beliefs may be.
He is the Governor of the State and should be giving priority to laws
of both the State of New Jersey and the U.S., as expressed by the USSC decision.

If I have to live with Scalia's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment,
Christie should have to live with the Court's decision on DOM.

I'm not in agreement with Glatt's idea that by declaring their religion before election,
that after their election the candidate can set about modifying the government
to conform with the belief's of that religion based on their personal views.

[glatt]

I didn't quite say that, but I suppose it's close enough. You don't agree that it should be that way, or you don't agree it is that way?

Because it's been that way forever, in virtually every election in history.

[Lamplighter]

Both... and I apologize if I overstated or misinterpreted.

Officials in state governments are usually working their way up through elected offices.
They tend to think only about the "will of the people" and being "popular".
Some never get the point that it's their job to protect the minority.

Civil Rights are special areas of the law, and not the purview of a "majority".
Remember the US Army being called out so 9 kids in Arkansas could
go to a school blocked by a perfervid Governor.

[tw]

Instead, Mr. Christie has argued that voters should decide the issue
of same-sex marriage in a ballot question,

This point is specifically cited as an example of Christie's (Governor NJ) political genius.

Corbett (Governor PA) has repeatedly demonstrated incompetence. It is not just his obvious gaffs with gay marriage. He even foolishly all but blamed Paterno for pedophilia in Penn State. Was PA District Attorney General when investigators had Sandusky on tape soliciting sex from kids. Knew of it and did nothing. To apparently enrich frackers (and resulting political contributions), he successfully set their payments to the state at 1/5th that of other states (while PA is so sort of cash as to close bridges all over the state that cannot be fixed - no money). His benchmark legislation was to eliminate state stores (liquor in PA is sold only by the state for great profit and lower taxes). Even both houses of the PA Congress are dominated by his party. And he cannot even get that legislation moved into law.

He does not even know how to oppose gay marriage without promoting hate. Why would anyone have voted this man in office? Apparently god knows. Another example of why politicians who promote their religion on all others is, well, incompetent.

Meanwhile, Christie successfully deflected criticism on this issue to elsewhere (see above quote). A wonderful political move praised by many NJ political observers. Does not matter what your opinions are or if you find this hate of gays acceptable. Christie has demonstrated he is a master of politics.

[Lamplighter]

Paragraphs rearranged for readibility


The Oregonian
Harry Esteve
10/17/13
Same-sex couples gain rights in Oregon -- if they were legally wed out of state

<snip>Deputy Attorney General Mary Williams wrote that Oregon’s constitutional prohibition
on same-sex marriage “would likely be construed as also prohibiting recognition
of out-of-state same-sex marriages.” However, she added,
“such a construction would likely violate the federal constitution.”<snip>

As news traveled of Oregon’s new policy to recognize legal same-sex marriages from out of state,
local reaction among gays and lesbians was muted and mixed Thursday.
“It’s almost ridiculous,” said Ben West of North Portland, who recently had a “commitment ceremony”
with his partner, Paul Rummell, but can’t legally marry here.
“I’m from Oregon and Oregon’s my home. I want to marry my partner in my home.”

West was reacting to a new Oregon Department of Justice ruling that paves the way
for the state to recognize valid, out-of-state same-sex marriages, even
as the state constitution bans any marriage other than between a man and a woman.
<snip>

Over 100,000 signatures have been gathered to change the Oregon Constitution on same-sex marriages.
At least 160,000 valid signatures are needed to place it on the 2014 ballot.

[Lamplighter]

This is important
...and although it may only be a procedural vote to begin debate, maybe...

NY Times
By JEREMY W. PETERS
Published: November 4, 2013

Bill Advances To Outlaw Discrimination Against Gays

WASHINGTON — A measure that would outlaw workplace discrimination
based on sexual orientation and gender identity overcame a significant obstacle
in the Senate on Monday as seven Republicans crossed party lines
and voted to begin debate on the bill.

[ Some amendments will probably be added to exempt various kinds of religious organizations, etc. ]

The 61-30 vote marks the first time since 1996 that the full Senate
will consider a measure to extend federal nondiscrimination law
to gay, lesbian, and bisexual people — a stark reminder, supporters said,
that as the public has come around to accepting gay rights, Congress has been slow to keep pace.

It is also the first time that either house of Congress has voted on
a nondiscrimination bill that includes transgender people.<snip>

Federal law already protects people from discrimination at work
because of race, religion and a number of other factors.
But it remains legal in most states to fire or refuse to hire people
because they are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.
Just 21 states and the District of Columbia offer such protections.

Huffington Post
11/04/2013

John Boehner Opposes ENDA, Dealing Blow To Bill's Chances

E'nuf said about the GOP leadership.

[Lamplighter]

I'm sort of proud of this thread.

It started back when President Obama was overcoming his personal feelings,
and over-riding Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, and some others,
to result in the repeal of DADT.

Now look where it has achieved... in Utah, no less
... all based on the "Due Process" Section of the 14th Amendment

Utah’s same-sex marriage ban is unconstitutional, judge rules

A federal judge on Friday ruled Utah’s same-sex marriage ban unconstitutional
in a state dominated by the Mormon Church, one of the country’s staunchest opponents of gay marriage.

The State will undoubtedly appeal to the US Supreme Court.
We have to wait, but I believe this is a monumental event set in motion...

.

[Lamplighter]

The Supreme Court has finally(?) agreed to deal with these situations,
but the legal maneuvering continues at the State level.

Remember that judge, Roy Moore, who refused to remove the 10 Commandments
from the State's (courthouse) building ? He is still trying to be a player.

TimesDaily.com - February 3, 2015
Court denies state's request for stay on same-sex marriages; Strange appeals

Alabama’s request for a hold on a ruling that struck down the state’s two bans
on same-sex marriage has been denied by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Following that ruling, Alabama Attorney General Luther Strange asked the U.S. Supreme Court
to stay the Jan. 23 U.S. District Court ruling striking down Alabama’s same-sex marriage bans.
<snip>
Alabama had asked the 11th Circuit appeals court to keep the decision on hold
since the U.S. Supreme Court will take up the issue of gay marriage later this year.

State lawyers urged the 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in Atlanta to stay
a judge’s decision overturning Alabama’s two bans on gay marriage.
They suggested there would be continued disputes over the legal status
of marriages even though a judge ruled the bans unconstitutional.

“Absent a stay, any same-sex marriages that are recognized by any official in Alabama
will be subject to dispute and challenge,” lawyers for the Alabama attorney general’s office wrote.

“A stay ensures that people in Alabama, including the plaintiffs, do not have to worry about
the undoing of same-sex marriages or adoptions after the U.S. Supreme Court rules this June,” state lawyers wrote.

State lawyers noted the conflicting statements handed down about issuing same-sex marriage licenses.
The Alabama Probate Judges Association initially said [federal Judge] Granade’s decision did not bind
judges to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. The group reversed course after
Granade issued a clarification order and said the decision applies to them.

Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore said last week that Alabama courts are not bound by Granade’s order.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has filed a judicial ethics complaint over Moore’s remarks,
likening it to his refusal a decade ago to obey a court order to remove a Ten Commandments monument
from the state judicial building.