Hezbollah night-vision gear manufactured in Britain

[Undertoad]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGK9KLVH41.DTL

The war on drugs and war on terror collide again. The UN comes down in favor of do whatever the fuck you like and we'll give it cover of legitimacy. Fuck the UN.

Israeli intelligence officials have complained to Britain and the United States that sensitive night-vision equipment recovered from Hezbollah fighters during the war in Lebanon had been exported by Britain to Iran. British officials said the equipment had been intended for use in a U.N. anti-narcotics campaign.

Israeli officials say they believe the state-of-the-art equipment, found in Hezbollah command-and-control headquarters in southern Lebanon during the just-concluded war, was part of a British government-approved shipment of 250 pieces of night-vision equipment sent to Iran in 2003.

Israeli military intelligence confirmed that one of the pieces of equipment is a Thermo-vision 1000 LR tactical night-vision system, serial No. 155010, part No. 193960, manufactured by Agema, a high-tech equipment company with branches in Bedfordshire, England, and San Diego. A spokesman for Agema in San Diego denied all knowledge of the system.

The equipment, which needed special export-license approval from the British government, was passed to the Iranians through a program run and administered by the U.N. Drug Control Program. The equipment uses infrared imaging to provide nighttime surveillance that allows the user to detect people and vehicles moving in the dark at a range of several miles.

[DanaC]

Yeah well, we're fairly annoyed with this :

British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has protested to the US about its use of Prestwick Airport in western Scotland to transport bombs to Israel.
Amid the Lebanon crisis, she said it seemed the US was ignoring procedure, and she registered her concerns with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

SNP leader Alex Salmond claimed the UK government must decide whether to "be an aircraft carrier" for the US.

The Lib Dems suggested the Americans were taking the UK for granted.

Mrs Beckett was asked about the controversy after discussing the Middle East crisis with fellow foreign ministers in Rome.

"We have already let the United States know that this is an issue that appears to be seriously at fault, and we will be making a formal protest if it appears that that is what has happened," she said.

Opposition parties have reacted angrily to a report in the Daily Telegraph newspaper that two chartered Airbus A310 cargo planes filled with laser-guided bombs landed at Prestwick en-route to Israel from the US.

The Israelis have requested the munitions to attack bunkers being used by Hezbollah militants in Lebanon.

'Special relationship'

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell called for the UK government to respond.

"If these reports are true, it is particularly provocative for the United States to have acted in this way," he said.

"It can only reinforce the belief of many that Britain is taken for granted in the so-called special relationship.

"Who knows how many of these munitions may be used to cause the kind of damage to Lebanon which the prime minister of that country described in Rome as cutting his country to pieces."

I find being made unwittingly complicit in Israel's slaughterfest far more worrying than Nightvision goggles finding their way to Hizb'allah

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Yeah well, we're fairly annoyed with this :

And the relevance of that to this thread would be...what?

[footfootfoot]

I swear to fucking god, who, for one minute, thinks you can give someone any kind of technology and expect them to use it for just the things you want them to?

"I'm shocked to discover gambling in this establishment."

If people had any moral scruples, I doubt there'd be a war. In the meantime, why act shocked when people start shooting at you with guns that they were asked not to use when they were purchased?

There are a lot of good excuses, but "you were asked not to use your whopping expensive, highly regulated night vision goggles" isn't one of them.

If I was at war with someone, (for the record I am not) I'd use everything in my arsenal to conquer my adversary. Maybe especially more so if you asked me not to.

But then, I'm just a wee bit hot and tired and sticky right now.

[DanaC]

Nightvision goggles arrive with one side of this conflict......bombs are sent to the other. I find it very difficult to be outraged about the nightvision goggles.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Nightvision goggles arrive with one side of this conflict......bombs are sent to the other.

Who did the UN send bombs to?

[DanaC]

America sent bombs to Israel via Britain. Britain made the night-vision goggles which have ended up in hizb'alla's possession.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

America sent bombs to Israel via Britain. Britain made the night-vision goggles which have ended up in hizb'alla's possession.

Yes, and Iran sent missles to Hezbullah too. Along with the night-vision stuff.

But the UN sent the NV gear to Iran. They're supposed to be supervising the ceasefire.

[Meiso]

This sort of situation really, really infuriates me. This is slightly out of context but on topic - has anyone seen the film No Man's Land? It's a film set during the Bosnian conflict of the early 90s; it's brilliant and i thoroughly recommend it. Anyway, during this film (i won't give anything away) a soldier comes across one of the enemy's equipment crates. In this area he finds a number of undeployed mines which he appears ecstactic about; not because they are mines, but for the fact that inscribed into the base is, "Made in E.U.".

When I first saw this film, I knew very little about the arms trade, but to this day the circumstance of sending in peacekeepers to prevent civilians, paramilitants and soldiers for dying from exposure to Western equipment confounds me as blatant failure of logic for the bodies that oversee the arms trade. I know it's not quite as simple as, "The UK (and others) are only going to permit the construction of arms for national use, not for export" due to the usual economy ( see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5262120.stm), politics and even potential moral obligation, but surely there must be a way?

Would it be anti-democratic to not allow sales (for example) of UK produced weapons outside of the commonwealth or the EU? Sigh... there's no easy answer to a situation like this I guess.

[DanaC]

Would it be anti-democratic to not allow sales (for example) of UK produced weapons outside of the commonwealth or the EU?

I'd be totally up for that as long as long as others (like the US) followed the same strictures.

[MaggieL]

People who intend evil will find weapons or make them. I guess somebody had to sub for the Russians, who got caught supplying NVG to Saddam. But then apparently the Russians are also supplying Hezbollah with missles through Iran and Syria.

But when the UN providing Iran with dual-use military equipment, it's either naive or disingenuous to expect them to supervise a ceasefire and disarm Hezbullah. They didn't follow through on what was in the last resolution, why would they do it on this one?

It's the usual shell-game...

[Dr. Zaius]

Frankly, I'd love it if every industrialized nation on earth kept their military equipment strictly to themselves. You don't need an modern industrial base to create a military force anymore. Just buy, beg or steal what you need off the bloated world arms market. If you're on the right side we'll even give them away to you. Sure would make wars a lot harder to wage in the Third World if there wasn't a huge surplus pool of AK-47s and RPGs and other toys floating about.

Needless to say. Too late now.

[DanaC]

People who intend evil will find weapons or make them. I guess somebody had to sub for the Russians, who got caught supplying NVG to Saddam. But then apparently the Russians are also supplying Hezbollah with missles through Iran and Syria.

The US is also supplying weaponry for this conflict.

[MaggieL]

Originally Posted by DanaC

The US is also supplying weaponry for this conflict.

"This conflict" is a nice neutral way to put it.

Look, I'm weary of the moral equivalance spiel. Israel is trying to defend itself against a militia in civilian camoflage, puppets of Syria and Iran, who has sworn to wipe them off the face of the planet. When they try to do this, the liberals of the world rise up in unison Greek chorus about how awful it is. How long can you expect them to turn the other cheek and be good sports about this?

Do you beleive Israel has a right to exist at all? Because clearly this won't stop until Iran is satisfied, and they've stated what they want quite plainly. If you just want to see them overrun, be honest enough to say so openly.

When someone states that they intend to kill you, you would be wise to believe them.

[DanaC]

If you just want to see them overrun, be honest enough to say so openly.

I have no desire to see Israel overrun. I do however see Israel as the primary aggressor in that region. I do not believe that Israel should be destroyed. I do however, believe they should cease their illegal occupation of and consistant human rights abuses within Palestine. I also believe that if that were to occur, most of the aggression from other states, sympathetic to the Palestinian cause would die out. Hizb'allah is intrinsically linked to Palestine, they are of the same origin. Whilst it can be argued that Hizb'allah started this particular round of fighting with israel, it`can also be argued that their actions were in direct response to the aggression of Israel in Palestine.

Yes, I see them as an equivalence. No that does not mean I think Israel should be destroyed. Much of what is said relating to the 'total destruction' of Israel is empty rhetoric. Israel is far too powerful and well armed for Hez'bollah to do more than graze their edges. As indeed has been seen in this recent conflict. Meanwhile, Israel has launched such a devastation on the Lebanon that it's hard not to see it in terms of 'collective punishment'.

As I said earlier, weapons are being sent to both sides of this conflict.