The Immaterial Mind

Mad Professor · 03-11-2009, 05:21 PM

Not expecting a definitive answer here of course, the Mind-Body problem has been around in philosophy for hundreds of years, but I was just wondering what peoples' views were on whether there is such a thing as a 'soul' or whatever you want to call it.

I feel there may be a non-material element to our minds, it's certainly very hard to account for consciousness without it, but what are your thoughts?

piercehawkeye45 · 03-11-2009, 05:52 PM

I believe my conscious is a very complicated chemical reaction. Impossible to prove either way though.

Undertoad · 03-11-2009, 07:04 PM

"I used to think the brain was the most wonderful organ in my body. Then I realized who's telling me that!" -- Emo Philips

Giving an metaphysical explanation for what you, or we, don't understand is not a good policy.

ZenGum · 03-11-2009, 07:09 PM

This is exactly the topic of my PhD thesis. No kidding. I know the answer, feel confident about it, and it has something approaching consensus in the modern philosopical community.

So I am banning myself from this thread. What's the point of me spending years and years of study to figure stuff out, if I just go and tell people, huh?

Happy Monkey · 03-11-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Professor

I feel there may be a non-material element to our minds, it's certainly very hard to account for consciousness without it, but what are your thoughts?

It's just as hard to account for consciousness with it. "Non-material" or "soul" don't account for anything, they just put a label on the thing that isn't accounted for. It's like an accountant putting "other" on the books to make them balance.

TheMercenary · 03-11-2009, 09:16 PM

You are God. There is no God outside of self.

Pie · 03-11-2009, 09:41 PM

Soul schmoul. No such thing.

There's hardware. (neurons, etc.)
There's algorithms. (behavior patterns.)
There's the database. (memories, acquired information.)

It all interrelates and each can modify the others.

Next!

Undertoad · 03-11-2009, 11:19 PM

"I cheated on my metaphysics final... I looked into the soul of the person sitting next to me." -- Woody Allen

Phage0070 · 03-12-2009, 12:52 AM

I believe that my consciousness is a series of chemical and electrical reactions which are far simpler than they appear in concert. I think that a machine such as a clock is wondrous to behold in its precision and intricacy, and that the machine of the human mind is even more wondrous because it can understand itself. We may like to believe that there is more to sentience than what we can perceive but we are like Pinocchio; we look down at the wood and strings that make us what we are and wish to be a "real" boy, whatever that means. We can see what we truly are and are dissatisfied.

When I look around at the wonders that humanity has created I feel awe where others are disappointed. Human endeavors are far from perfect; there are problems with simple solutions that don't get fixed, and problems with no simple answers that could have been avoided with a little care. When you think about it though, what we have today was attained by *meat*. In the end our machines and tools, computers and intricate calculations, were set in motion by nothing more than bags of delicately salted water, clinging together in the most tenuous of balancing acts. Our most advanced technology was created by men standing on the backs of their forefathers, each of which was merely a collective of cells working in sequence, with each of those cells so frail that in anything other than the most ideal of conditions would wither and die nearly instantly. With all of our sophistication it is the height of arrogance to look back at all of this and deny it the praise it deserves.

Bravo, little cells. With what you had to work with, the outcome is astonishing.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-12-2009, 01:24 AM

I think you're all a bunch of stick-in-the-muds.

Undertoad · 03-12-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I know the answer

Oh don't ban yourself. Bring your most treasured findings. Let us in on what your deepest thoughts are. I beg of you.

03-12-2009, 05:31 AM

Yes! Confess your sorcery to save your immortal soul.

Then we'll kill him.

DanaC · 03-12-2009, 05:51 AM

I have no idea what it is...I suspect it is electrical activity.

I don't believe in the soul. Though my mind wants me to. The brain doesn't like the disconnection of here and then not here. It fills in the blanks and reaches instinctively for understanding. The person is here. Then the person is not here. But they can still be seen internally. They exist and do not exist. It makes no sense to us.

But without the framework of the brain there can be no consciousness. That's what I believe. The energy which animated our thoughts is expended, or changed in state (you can tell I'm no physicist right?:P) and dissipated, when the brain can no longer support it.

regular.joe · 03-12-2009, 07:23 AM

I am therefore I think. That smart guy from Europe had it backwards.

Shawnee123 · 03-12-2009, 09:35 AM

The "soul" is electricity, or energy, that goes back into the environment in some form when we pass. Some of us give back good energy that grows flowers and trees. Some of us give energy to mating slugs. We are all just more particles in the vast universe.

03-11-2009, 05:21 PM	#1
Mad Professor Belt Conveyor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Blighty Posts: 65	The Immaterial Mind Not expecting a definitive answer here of course, the Mind-Body problem has been around in philosophy for hundreds of years, but I was just wondering what peoples' views were on whether there is such a thing as a 'soul' or whatever you want to call it. I feel there may be a non-material element to our minds, it's certainly very hard to account for consciousness without it, but what are your thoughts? __________________ Nothin' seems that weird anymore Lo Fidelity Allstars

03-11-2009, 05:52 PM	#2
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I believe my conscious is a very complicated chemical reaction. Impossible to prove either way though. __________________ I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all.

03-11-2009, 07:09 PM	#4
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	This is exactly the topic of my PhD thesis. No kidding. I know the answer, feel confident about it, and it has something approaching consensus in the modern philosopical community. So I am banning myself from this thread. What's the point of me spending years and years of study to figure stuff out, if I just go and tell people, huh? __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

03-11-2009, 09:16 PM	#6
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	You are God. There is no God outside of self. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

03-11-2009, 09:41 PM	#7
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	Soul schmoul. No such thing. There's hardware. (neurons, etc.) There's algorithms. (behavior patterns.) There's the database. (memories, acquired information.) It all interrelates and each can modify the others. Next! __________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

03-11-2009, 07:04 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	"I used to think the brain was the most wonderful organ in my body. Then I realized who's telling me that!" -- Emo Philips Giving an metaphysical explanation for what you, or we, don't understand is not a good policy.

03-11-2009, 11:19 PM	#8
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	"I cheated on my metaphysics final... I looked into the soul of the person sitting next to me." -- Woody Allen

03-12-2009, 12:52 AM	#9
Phage0070 Snooty Borg Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 81	I believe that my consciousness is a series of chemical and electrical reactions which are far simpler than they appear in concert. I think that a machine such as a clock is wondrous to behold in its precision and intricacy, and that the machine of the human mind is even more wondrous because it can understand itself. We may like to believe that there is more to sentience than what we can perceive but we are like Pinocchio; we look down at the wood and strings that make us what we are and wish to be a "real" boy, whatever that means. We can see what we truly are and are dissatisfied. When I look around at the wonders that humanity has created I feel awe where others are disappointed. Human endeavors are far from perfect; there are problems with simple solutions that don't get fixed, and problems with no simple answers that could have been avoided with a little care. When you think about it though, what we have today was attained by meat. In the end our machines and tools, computers and intricate calculations, were set in motion by nothing more than bags of delicately salted water, clinging together in the most tenuous of balancing acts. Our most advanced technology was created by men standing on the backs of their forefathers, each of which was merely a collective of cells working in sequence, with each of those cells so frail that in anything other than the most ideal of conditions would wither and die nearly instantly. With all of our sophistication it is the height of arrogance to look back at all of this and deny it the praise it deserves. Bravo, little cells. With what you had to work with, the outcome is astonishing.

03-12-2009, 01:24 AM	#10
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I think you're all a bunch of stick-in-the-muds. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-12-2009, 05:31 AM	#12
NoBoxes Guest Posts: n/a	Yes! Confess your sorcery to save your immortal soul. Then we'll kill him.

03-12-2009, 05:51 AM	#13
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	I have no idea what it is...I suspect it is electrical activity. I don't believe in the soul. Though my mind wants me to. The brain doesn't like the disconnection of here and then not here. It fills in the blanks and reaches instinctively for understanding. The person is here. Then the person is not here. But they can still be seen internally. They exist and do not exist. It makes no sense to us. But without the framework of the brain there can be no consciousness. That's what I believe. The energy which animated our thoughts is expended, or changed in state (you can tell I'm no physicist right?:P) and dissipated, when the brain can no longer support it.

03-12-2009, 07:23 AM	#14
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	I am therefore I think. That smart guy from Europe had it backwards. __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

03-12-2009, 09:35 AM	#15
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	The "soul" is electricity, or energy, that goes back into the environment in some form when we pass. Some of us give back good energy that grows flowers and trees. Some of us give energy to mating slugs. We are all just more particles in the vast universe. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

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