Replacement windows connundrum

[chrisinhouston]

Bit of a rant here but what else is is the Cellar Nothingland good for?

My stepson who just moved closer to us into a nice newer home told us a few weeks ago that they were going to go ahead and replace the remaining single pane aluminum frame windows in their home with double glazed vinyl ones. The former owner had replaced about 65% of the home's windows and they were the ones facing west and south and get lots of sunlight. The ones left face mostly east and are pretty shaded but he wanted to just get the house all done to match closer.

Since we live in Houston the summer is hot and long here with 4-5 months of 90+ degree days, warm nights and while our winters are mild we still get plenty of days down around freezing or in the 40's and 50's. I think in the long run if you plan to stay in your home the upgrade is worth it as electricity keeps going up and there is increased comfort and sound deadening to be considered. And I have done about 90% of my home with new ones but I did my own research, measurements and installation. I still have 5 windows left but will wait for a sale or something and it will be winter before I would do them.

What gets me is my stepson just went with a company after a door to door salesman knocked and gave him his sales pitch. I learned the hard way about buying like that, many years ago my first wife and I bought a set of Colliers Encyclopedias that cost us a small fortune in monthly payments. Later in life my wife and I were persuaded to pay over $1000 for a Kirby vacuum cleaner, the heaviest vacuum on earth and like a Mercedes it is expensive for parts or service. We still have it but some day if I get a Dyson or something like that the Kirby could make a boat anchor! My wife says her son told her the 12 windows cost $17,000 but I am pretty sure she misheard him and it costs $7000. The windows are average size from a small bathroom one to big ones in their dining room that are 3 by 6 feet maybe. My Pella windows from Lowes cost me from $200 to $450 and I can't imagine his windows costing $1400 or so each which would be the case if they were 17 grand. I think he should have researched it more, Googled the company name and gotten reviews on them and not just heard what the salesman had to say. And I would have gotten several estimates as well from different companies. Other thing is the salesman talked him into double hung windows where both upper and lower open. Where we live you can only open your windows a few months anyway so I would never have bothered with that. The salesman explained how easy being double hung makes them to clean. This is kind of irrelevant for my stepson and his wife who hire a maid service as well as a lawn guy and pool service; I don't think they even own a bottle of Windex!

That being said they did the installation this week and I went over to see them afterwards. All I can say is I am glad I went with Pella windows and did my own installation. Replacement windows are typically installed with in the window opening after the metal frame is torn out and held in place with several screws. My windows all had recessed screw holes and matching color plugs to hide the screws, his do not and you can see these big ugly screws. They also chipped some of the frame areas with the chuck on their drill as they put the screws in. And all of their new windows are really hard to open and close, not like with one finger as the salesman demonstrated! I asked my daughter in law if the upper window sections were also hrd to open and she said she couldn't even reach them if she wanted to... and you bought double hung for what reason???? She also was not real happy with their cleanup work and she thinks they scratched the hardwood floors in a few places.

Well, it's their money but I sure wish they had asked me first and chosen a better company to do this and I am now even happier with the windows I put on my house!

[glatt]

I've been mulling over windows as well. I want to do it myself, and get the replacement remodel kind where you just remove the old sashes and dividers and put the new frames and some insulation in. This makes the opening about 2 inches smaller in each direction, but it's less demo work and less finish carpentry.

I've been trying to do some research to decide which company I want to go with, but boy, is it a lot to digest. You've got:
-style of window
-frame materials
-frame construction features (which is a big category by itself)
-types of glass
-types of glass coatings (gotta check those U factors and SHGC ratings)
-types of gas between panes
-number of panes
-fake muntin bars or not
-brand
-local availability/shipping costs
-warrantee
-and price to consider.

I was planning on ordering a couple and installing them to see what they were like, and then getting more if I like them.

I'm seriously interested in buying online from Window E-Store and getting their vinyl triple pane ECOXtreme windows. The specs are very good, but I'd love to look at one in person. Anyway, they go for $535 each in the size I need with the options I want. Free "delivery" if I pick up from a building supply place just outside the Beltway.

[chrisinhouston]

For our weather conditions I got the E-glass and argon gas in between the panels. I also decided against any of the multipane dividers or other grids and chose just full light panels. The Pella's have a lifetime warranty and we had a mix of sliders and also some single hung casement windows. Our home had 2 window boxes that were very poorly built and in need of redoing so part of my project involved tearing out the boxes and construction new ones to hold the windows. When my son helped me with the upstairs ones we also found hidden damage from water intrusion so ended up removing the siding panels in one section and fixing everything before sealing it up and finishing with Hardiplank sheets (the old siding was like textured Masonite or something). Also where ever possible I used the proper butyl mylar flashing tape prior to the window going in and used expandable urethane foam to fill all spaces where needed before attaching new cedar trim (could have used Hardiplank but painted ceder is just as durable in my opinion) and painted and caulked all of that. And finally, our home interior has the newer contemporary look where they just drywall the window sill area where it meets the glass, no wood molding or anything. I like the classic style so I replaced the lower sill (it's like a 1 x 6 with a rounded edge) with a wider one and I did casement molding on the top and both sides and under the sill. It gives it a much nicer finished look in my opinion.

I know that any installer would not have gone to that much trouble or expense as their goal is to get the job done in a day or 2. They typically under measure the size for the replacement and use trim and caulk to fill in the gaps and believe me they use a lot of tubes of caulk.

[Griff]

double glazing

[limegreenc]

5 years ago when we bought our house, there was a thing called Ontario Retro Fit Grant which basically allows a homeowner 17 months to install an assortment of 'Green' updates to save energy. The Feds give 50%/ Provincial gives 50%. We got insulation and $6000 worth of windows. The cheque was for $6400. Anyways the hardware store (very reputable I might add) got the job for the windows. Guaranteed for 25 years-top of the line 'ACANS'.
6 months later the company goes belly up. There went the warranty on the windows. After a year 2 of the seals went, called the hardware store and they could replace the window panel free of charge but we had to pay for measurements/installation. Fuckin' A.
You can't tell me they had no idea about this company beforehand.

[Undertoad]

$6400 out of nowhere - number one, must be nice to live in an oil-bearing country.

Number two, how can any company go belly-up with those kinds of checks being handed out for its product? Oh, right - it was a limited time offer, so the massive windfall ended. So they had a great incentive to make a bunch of crappy products and then, with its windfall over, and a ton of jobs suddenly being unsupportable, to merely die.

With the best of intentions, your government produced this result.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

With the best of intentions, your government produced this result.

So are US Americans better or worse off since our government lacks good intent?

[chrisinhouston]

Update... My S in L called me and asked if I could meet the window salesman/rep at their home later today as he and his wive carpooled to work and can't get home in time. I said sure...

He is very upset with the overall product and installation.

Oh well.

[glatt]

They're calling in the big guns.

[limegreenc]

The window company went under because they broadened their business by going to the States, where the market was too soft/spread themselves too thin/didn't do enough market research. Funny thing, when you look them up online they still 'exist in the east coast', but the BBB warns that it's a mock-up. FYI the retrofit grant no longer exists-no wonder. When my sister did hers, they'd upped the grant to 85% per, so she ended up with cash in pocket.

[glatt]

I may be misremembering, but I think in the US, you can deduct 7% of the purchase cost of windows that meet the highest energy star standard for your area up through the end of the 2013 tax year. Installations fees are not deductible. So a $380 window would wind up only costing $350 after you get your tax refund in April.

[chrisinhouston]

Well the sale rep came out and I met him, he checked every window and felt that only 2 were very hard to open and made the excuse that the other seemed a bit hard but they were big windows! He said he would have to come back with the installer at a later date. My step son says the sale pitch emphasized they could be opened and closed with one finger! I also asked the guy about the big screw heads showing and installed rather haphazzarely and where the drill chuck had damaged the frame and he said that was all normal based on where the studs in the window frame were. Yeah right...

Talked to my stepson later and he did say the windows averaged $1500 each so my wife was right about the cost. All I can say is I am glad I measured, purchased and installed my own. I Googled the company name and can't find much negative about them so maybe they will make it alright.

[glatt]

Are these windows enormous? I can't see how you would get to $1500 per window. It should be half that for an average sized window.

[chrisinhouston]

Originally Posted by glatt

Are these windows enormous? I can't see how you would get to $1500 per window. It should be half that for an average sized window.

Not super large, the biggest ones are about 32-36" wide by 6 ft. tall. By contrast the biggest ones on my hose were 32" x 72" and they were sliders instead of double hung but that shouldn't be that much difference. I think mine were around $500 or maybe just under $600.

I know that part of the final cost for my step son included the measurement, the window itself and the installation as well as the commission for the sales rep. but that seems like a whole lot of markup!

[limegreenc]

$1500 for a 36"x6' window. That's a lot of money. We did 9 windows. Two were 48"x3'. The other 7 were 60"x4'. The smaller ones cost $480 installed-the larger $650 installed. They are all double-hung. Out of all, 3 are picture windows with narrow double hung windows on the sides. I thought consumer goods were cheaper in the US?