Belgian committee votes for full Islamic veil ban

[morethanpretty]

A Belgian parliamentary committee has voted to ban face-covering Islamic veils from being worn in public.

The home affairs committee voted unanimously to endorse the move, which must be approved by parliament for it to become law.

Such a vote could be held within weeks, correspondents say, meaning that Belgium could become the first European country to implement a ban.

France is also considering restricting face-covering veils.

There are several types of headscarves and veils for Muslim women - those that cover the face being the niqab and the burka.

'Dangerous precedent'

The BBC's Dominic Hughes reports from Brussels that there are about 500,000 Muslims in Belgium, and the Belgian Muslim Council says only a couple of dozen wear full-face veils.


Find out about different styles of Muslim headscarf

In graphics

Several districts of Belgium have already banned the burka in public places under old local laws originally designed to stop people masking their faces completely at carnival time.

The wording of the draft law approved by the parliamentary committee says the ban would apply to areas accessible to the public - which would include people walking in the street or using public transport - and would be enforced by fines or even prison.

Denis Ducarme, from the Belgian centre-right Reformist Movement that proposed the bill, said he was "proud that Belgium would be the first country in Europe which dares to legislate on this sensitive matter".

A colleague, Corinne De Parmentier, said: "We have to free women of this burden."

But the proposal has alarmed some who see it as an attack on civil liberties.

Isabelle Praile, the vice-president of the Muslim Executive of Belgium, said any law could set a dangerous precedent.

"Today it's the full-face veil, tomorrow the veil, the day after it will be Sikh turbans and then perhaps it will be mini-skirts," she was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.

I understand why this would be an issue, but I think its a huge violation of personal freedom to tell another what they can/can't wear in public.

A colleague, Corinne De Parmentier, said: "We have to free women of this burden."

Again, it is not their place to "free" the women of a burden unless the women are asking for such help.

[squirell nutkin]

Relax, MTP it's part of a well tested, long term strategy. Next comes banning the religion, forbidding ownership of real estate, holding public office, speaking their native language, teaching reading and writing in that language, public assembly, voting, and so on.

The English did it to the Irish, The Germans to the Jews, Poles, Gypsies, et al. It goes on and on.

I don't know the answer all I can say is I can't stand intolerant people...

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

Relax, MTP it's part of a well tested, long term strategy. Next comes banning the religion, forbidding ownership of real estate, holding public office, speaking their native language, teaching reading and writing in that language, public assembly, voting, and so on.

The English did it to the Irish, The Germans to the Jews, Poles, Gypsies, et al. It goes on and on.

I don't know the answer all I can say is I can't stand intolerant people...

lol

Actually, it's more akin to the Kulturkampf policies of the late 19th century German Empire. Which was specifically aimed at Catholics and catholicism. The now famous effect of which was to strengthen catholicism and make catholics waay more hardcore.

[Undertoad]

It's a slippery slope.

[TheMercenary]

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

I understand why this would be an issue, but I think its a huge violation of personal freedom to tell another what they can/can't wear in public.



Again, it is not their place to "free" the women of a burden unless the women are asking for such help.

Just to play devils advocate here, but don't most western cultures require people (women included) to wear clothes in public? If you don't wear clothes you get punished for indecent exposure etc.

I guess there must be some line between not enough, and too much that I'm missing here.

Personally, I think anyone should be allowed to wear or not wear whatever they like.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Just to play devils advocate here, but don't most western cultures require people (women included) to wear clothes in public? If you don't wear clothes you get punished for indecent exposure etc.

I guess there must be some line between not enough, and too much that I'm missing here.

Personally, I think anyone should be allowed to wear or not wear whatever they like.

Yes they do have public decency laws that don't allow nakedness in public. I think that is slightly a different issue (most people do not have nakedness as a requirement by their religion), but yes again, the public decency laws are a violation of personal freedom. I just think its less intrusive overall. Maybe I'm not as outraged by them because I'm used to them. Damn Puritans.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

I think that is slightly a different issue (most people do not have nakedness as a requirement by their religion),...

Just the be clear, it is NOT and requirement of their religion. It's a cultural requirement in certain tribes/sects.

[classicman]

I wonder how walking into a bank wearing a ski mask in the middle of the summer would be received.
Just sayin'

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by classicman

I wonder how walking into a bank wearing a ski mask in the middle of the summer would be received.
Just sayin'

It would be deemed suspicious. Rightly so. Nobody wears a ski mask in the day in Summer, unless they're skiing.

The two are not analogous.

How would it be seen if a woman walked into a bank wearing a snood, in the middle of winter? Or if an elderly lady walked into a bank wearing a hat with a veil? Hundred years ago it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow, because veiled hats were quite common. Go to a funeral and you still see them.

The whole thing is riduclous. It's grossly illiberal.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by DanaC

The two are not analogous.

How would it be seen if a woman walked into a bank wearing a snood, in the middle of winter?

Uh, whats a snood?

The whole thing is riduclous. It's grossly illiberal.

I think the practice of wearing them is ridiculous. But hey, thats just me. Should we legislate it away? Whatever. I have more important things to worry about.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

Uh, whats a snood?

Not much...what's snood with you?

[Spexxvet]

I don't think they should be legislated against, but on a personal level, I feel uncomfortable when I can't see someone's face.

On a side note, it'd be frigging hard to fit glasses to someone in that get-up.

And what's going on underneath all that cloth?

[DanaC]

But it is how women of those particular tribes/sects express their modesty, which very much is a religious matter.

I think it's ridiculous and utterly counter productive. The veil has become more and more symbolic of a moslem identity within the western secular world. Even amongst women whose mothers never wore one. Young moslem women are taking to the veil in droves, precisely because it is becoming so fraught and full of meaning.

If we actually wanted moslem women to stop wearing the veil we'd have been better off ('we' being the West) just fucking ignoring it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

But it is how women of those particular tribes/sects express their modesty, which very much is a religious matter.

Balderdash, it's how they convince the men that control them, of their modesty... which is cultural.