Belgian committee votes for full Islamic veil ban

[classicman]

Originally Posted by DanaC

The two are not analogous.

How would it be seen if a woman walked into a bank wearing a snood, in the middle of winter?

Uh, whats a snood?

The whole thing is riduclous. It's grossly illiberal.

I think the practice of wearing them is ridiculous. But hey, thats just me. Should we legislate it away? Whatever. I have more important things to worry about.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

Uh, whats a snood?

Not much...what's snood with you?

[Spexxvet]

I don't think they should be legislated against, but on a personal level, I feel uncomfortable when I can't see someone's face.

On a side note, it'd be frigging hard to fit glasses to someone in that get-up.

And what's going on underneath all that cloth?

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

And what's going on underneath all that cloth?

masturbation. Or, as limey would have it - "haggis"

[Shawnee123]

Don't turn my haggis into a ho.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Brianna

masturbation. Or, as limey would have it - "haggis"

They could wear pants, if they'd just emprace the ben-wa balls

[piercehawkeye45]

Are these woman covering there faces because of choice or because of sexist social forces? Fun argument. Kinda of like the question of when should a fetus be granted human rights.

[Sundae]

Dana, the [language class] scenario you posted is one of the reasons I would be happy if the veil was outlawed.

You know I'm not anti-Islam OR anti-immigration, but I have to ask what these small village wives are doing for our country? I'm sure their husbands work very hard and benefit us financially. But the fact they hold views so very different than our own regarding 50% of the population, and import wives brought up with the same view is not diversity, it is perversity. We do not need to encourage men to view women this way. Trust me, I saw plenty of pub widows when working as a barmaid to realise that many white British working class men like their wives barefoot and pregnant. And that's not forgetting the middle class yummy mummies and the upper class breeding machines.

I'm not for banning the veil in this country. But I would not cry "civil liberties!" if it was. If the main argument against it is that women will be traopped in their homes without a veil, or intimidated off the streets, I think there is more important work that needs to be done. British muslim women, whether by birth or immigration should never have to cower behind curtains, whether it's in their living rooms or on their face.

[DanaC]

Chika, i know damn well you aren't racist :P

I don't think it's the main reason. My main reason to be against such a law is that it is counter productive in many ways.

Away from the village mentality, and looking at second and third generation, middle-class moslem girls attending university and looking for careers in business, law, or science, seem to be adopting the veil more and more. It has become a way to express their cultural and religious identity, their individual right to follow their faith. It has become ever more loaded with symbolism as time has gone on. part of the reason for that is that we have, as a culture, afforded it that level of symbolic meaning. It has become a totem on both sides of the argument. Banning it would give it almost mythical status (imo) amongst young, politically aware, culturally sensitive moslem women. Its demise in law would underline any sense of alienation, betrayal and grievance they may feel towards us, the rest of their countrymen and women, who have allowed their cultural expression to be dismissed and denied.

I also think it is wrong. I think those girls at university, who are making choices about the veil, have every right to forge their version of British culture. And for their version to be a part of the whole. The veil doesn't physically harm or endanger anybody. It's a piece of material over the face. What it means, and why it is worn differs depending on who is wearing it. At its heart it's usually worn for reasons i personally find repellent. But it is patently not the same as female circumcision. We have a duty to ensure children are safe from harm; female circumcision is harmful. The veil, in and of itself is not harmful. The cultural baggage attached to it and underlying the reasons for wearing it are, in my opinion, harmful: but none of that will go away if we remove the cloth. It is a stab at something we, the majority, find uncomfortable and disquieting. It serves no useful purpose to my mind.

[classicman]

All things being equal - I would hire one without over one with, but I'm a classhole.

[Sundae]

You always make a good point babba.
I don't agree though.

In fact I was thinking about it on my way back from the shops today. And painting myself a fruitloop by trying some sentences out loud. In the end I decided you have an intelligent and informed point of view that I simply don't agree with.

But in good news terms, my 18 yo Aussie cousin is rabid with jealousy that we're going to see JB in panto

PS, sorry Classic, I wasn't dismissing you.
PPS (!) no man has ever been corrupted by the sight of my face, or by a glimpse of my hair. As far as I know.

[squirell nutkin]

I watched "30 Days" episode last night about a Christian guy living with a Muslim family for 30 days. There were some good points that each side made about personal and group responsibility.

One point the Muslims made was why should they apologize for the actions of fringe lunatic terrorists who do not represent them any more than a Christian should apologize for the actions of a fringe lunatic that bombs an abortion clinic?

The Christian guy countered with apologizing for the same thing. Later in the episode he was defending Muslims as not all being terrorists by citing Timothy McVeigh as a terrorist who wasn't a Muslim. (all terrorists are Muslim ≠ all Muslims are terrorists)

I admit it put a face to the huge sweeping generalization: Muslim.

[morethanpretty]

Dana has basically made all my points for me.
This sort of law is just going to drive moderates to the fundamental side and make the fundamentals hate the west more. Make them more intent on proving their commitment to their faith.
In addition to that: now the women who had to wear the full burka in public, may not be allowed out in public since they cannot properly cover (according to their custom/religion.) So, it can cause these women to be more isolated and forced to cower in their own homes. If we are truly worried about their personal freedoms, then laws should be made that could cause them to be isolated from society and HELP.
If they want help, the need the means to reach out for it, not laws that force "help" down their throats. I'm sure their men do plenty of forcing.

[tw]

Any bank robber that wants to wear a mask should be permitted to do so.

[jinx]

Have bank robberies increased with the veiled population?

Although I think business and govt buildings should be allowed to have a 'face must be visible policy' if they feel they need to for security, an outright ban doesn't seem right. Seems like it's skirting the real issue of immigration, which is less pc.